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The difference between Led Zeppelin covering an old song and updating and hip hop sampling is huge. Led Zeppelin rarely changes the chords and keeps the basic melody, they may add their own solo and change a few words but it still resembles the song. Where as sampling takes 1 or more songs takes certain elements and rearranges them into a new song. When a producer takes an existing song and leaves it more or less intact this is called interpolation, something that Dre, Diddy & Kanye have done numerous times in their career. Depending on how prominent and who the sample is who determine if the person gets just sample credit or actual writing credit.
The difference between Led Zeppelin covering an old song and updating and hip hop sampling is huge. Led Zeppelin rarely changes the chords and keeps the basic melody, they may add their own solo and change a few words but it still resembles the song. Where as sampling takes 1 or more songs takes certain elements and rearranges them into a new song. When a producer takes an existing song and leaves it more or less intact this is called interpolation, something that Dre, Diddy & Kanye have done numerous times in their career. Depending on how prominent and who the sample is who determine if the person gets just sample credit or actual writing credit.
Samplers are collage artists, musicians are painters.
The difference between Led Zeppelin covering an old song and updating and hip hop sampling is huge. Led Zeppelin rarely changes the chords and keeps the basic melody, they may add their own solo and change a few words but it still resembles the song. Where as sampling takes 1 or more songs takes certain elements and rearranges them into a new song. When a producer takes an existing song and leaves it more or less intact this is called interpolation, something that Dre, Diddy & Kanye have done numerous times in their career. Depending on how prominent and who the sample is who determine if the person gets just sample credit or actual writing credit.
The difference between Led Zeppelin covering an old song and updating and hip hop sampling is huge. Led Zeppelin rarely changes the chords and keeps the basic melody, they may add their own solo and change a few words but it still resembles the song. Where as sampling takes 1 or more songs takes certain elements and rearranges them into a new song. When a producer takes an existing song and leaves it more or less intact this is called interpolation, something that Dre, Diddy & Kanye have done numerous times in their career. Depending on how prominent and who the sample is who determine if the person gets just sample credit or actual writing credit.
Samplers are collage artists, musicians are painters.
That's one way to look at it but very few ideas are original and most music whether 100 % original or not is a variation of something else. Like Picasso said "All great artists steal", so I'd said samplers are like collage artists, musicians do paint by numbers
The difference between Led Zeppelin covering an old song and updating and hip hop sampling is huge. Led Zeppelin rarely changes the chords and keeps the basic melody, they may add their own solo and change a few words but it still resembles the song. Where as sampling takes 1 or more songs takes certain elements and rearranges them into a new song. When a producer takes an existing song and leaves it more or less intact this is called interpolation, something that Dre, Diddy & Kanye have done numerous times in their career. Depending on how prominent and who the sample is who determine if the person gets just sample credit or actual writing credit.
Ok let me simplify. Hip hop sampling may only take 4 bars of the whole song, just the baseline or the drums and mix it with either another song or stuff they did themself. Theyll also either change the tempo, put through filters and/or distort it in someway. As oppose cover or what Led Zeppelin did was to take the basic blueprint of song add their artistic flair. When a hip hop producer does takes a popular song and keeps it relatively intact (Like Diddy did with Biggie's "Juicy") it's called interpolation. It's similar to a cover except it's not following the song's lyrics or it's vocal melody except for the chorus.
Post by josephmarshall28 on Feb 9, 2011 15:39:03 GMT -5
The Gorillaz are a good band, but They are not hip-hop. They are some hybrid version of rap & rock and ect....They have some hip-hop elements (but so does Kid Rock). If they are booked as the "hip-hop headliner", it would be kinda of lame. The Gorillaz are not lame, but the idea of them as a hip-hop headliner lame.................let the hate start.....now..lol
Post by josephmarshall28 on Feb 9, 2011 15:43:44 GMT -5
and they are not bringing the crowd of a Jay-Z/ Eminem/Outkast/Dr.Dre/Lil Wayne/Kanye West...those are "Headliners"...I'm just saying for Bonnaroo X they have to go bigger then the Gorillaz if they really are gonna have a hip-hop headliner, if you consider the Gorillaz a hip-hop group (which I don't)
So when a hip-hop artist samples another artist, are they required to pay them for said usage?
Depends on the artist, some artists are known for suing so you have to clear it and some not, also depending on how well you can disguise the sample determines if you pay. But like I said before depending on the artist and how prominent the sample is in the song determines whether the artist gets writing credit or simply just listed as a sample. The difference is one is a one time payment the other gets royalties per album/song sale.
Post by LazersFromMexico on Feb 9, 2011 16:04:21 GMT -5
Is there any possibility of BlackRoc being in the headlining spot? Mos Def is supposedly already there. plus, The Black Keys won't even have to leave the stage after their set. It kinda works...
Is there any possibility of BlackRoc being in the headlining spot? Mos Def is supposedly already there. plus, The Black Keys won't even have to leave the stage after their set. It kinda works...
Might get a couple songs during Black Keys set, but there is no chance that the headlining set will be Blakroc
So when a hip-hop artist samples another artist, are they required to pay them for said usage?
For a recording that is sold, yes. For a free mixtape or live performance, no.
Thats the general rule for all music, I believe.
Mix-tapes can still be sued over, DJ Drama got raided & Dangermouse had to stop the Grey album. Live performances the venue is suppose to pay publishing on everything preformed, but isn't always down. But bars, clubs, restaurants, etc are suppose to also pay any publishing for music that is played whether live or recorded and I'm sure few actually do.
For a recording that is sold, yes. For a free mixtape or live performance, no.
Thats the general rule for all music, I believe.
Mix-tapes can still be sued over, DJ Drama got raided & Dangermouse had to stop the Grey album. Live performances the venue is suppose to pay publishing on everything preformed, but isn't always down. But bars, clubs, restaurants, etc are suppose to also pay any publishing for music that is played whether live or recorded and I'm sure few actually do.
Drama got raided, but I'm pretty sure he didn't get prosecuted. If he was selling the mixtapes then of course that is illegal, because of the sampling issue. Most mixtapes are generally distributed freely, thus no breaking of laws. Thats why artists like Pretty Lights and Girl Talk give their albums out for free, so they don't have to pay for samples used.
Post by icantenough on Feb 9, 2011 16:32:42 GMT -5
bands do not have to pay money to play songs live. if they release a live album, then yes.
It was hard enough for Gallagher to sue his brother over impersonating him and doing his bit as Gallagher.
"In the early 1990s, Gallagher's younger brother, Ron Gallagher asked him for permission to perform shows using Gallagher's trademark Sledge-O-Matic routine. Gallagher granted his blessing to his younger brother on the condition that Ron and his manager would make it clear in their promotional materials that it was Ron Gallagher, not Gallagher himself, who was putting on the show. After a few years of complying with Gallagher's conditions, Ron began blurring the line between his act and that of his brother. He would often promote his act as Gallagher Too, a moniker Gallagher felt was insufficiently informative. In some instances, Ron's act was promoted in a way that provided no clue to prospective attendees that they were seeing someone other than Gallagher himself. Gallagher initially attempted to get his brother to stop these activities by requesting that he stop using Gallagher's well-known Sledge-O-Matic routine. These efforts proved futile, and Ron kept touring as "Gallagher Too" (often spelled "Gallagher Two") while using the Sledge-O-Matic routine his older brother had made famous. In August 2000, Gallagher sued his brother for trademark violations and false advertising. The courts ultimately sided with Leo Gallagher, and an injunction was granted prohibiting Ron from performing any act that impersonates his brother in small clubs and venues. This injunction also prohibited Ron from intentionally bearing likeness to his brother"
Samplers are collage artists, musicians are painters.
That's one way to look at it but very few ideas are original and most music whether 100 % original or not is a variation of something else. Like Picasso said "All great artists steal", so I'd said samplers are like collage artists, musicians do paint by numbers
Two different people can paint a bowl of oranges and they will be two distinct paintings. Also someone else can come along tear it into litte pieces and glue them in the shape of a Banana. Personally I think the painters had more talent.
That's one way to look at it but very few ideas are original and most music whether 100 % original or not is a variation of something else. Like Picasso said "All great artists steal", so I'd said samplers are like collage artists, musicians do paint by numbers
Two different people can paint a bowl of oranges and they will be two distinct paintings. Also someone else can come along tear it into litte pieces and glue them in the shape of a Banana. Personally I think the painters had more talent.
But each painting would use whatever school of thought the painter decides to take on (cubism, neo-realism or Italian Renaissance) as it's blueprint and hopefully add it's artistic flair in it. So in the music context that'd take whatever school of thought in music (Delta blues, 77 punk or shoegaze) that they want to take on and hopefully add their flair. Almost every band you can breakdown easily into their influences. I think ppl give musicians too much credit for originality when very few if any try to reinvent the wheel, they just take from their predecessors.
You most definitely are suppose to pay publishing for live performances en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royalties#Performance_royalties Performance royalties ‘Performance’ in the music industry can include any of the following: a performance of a song or composition — live, recorded or broadcast a live performance by any musician a performance by any musician through a recording on physical media performance through the playing of recorded music music performed through the web (digital transmissions) It is useful to treat these royalties under two classifications: (a) those associated with conventional forms of music distribution which have prevailed for most part of the 20th Century, and (b) those from emerging 'digital rights' associated with newer forms of communication, entertainment and media technologies (from 'ring tones' to 'downloads' to 'live internet streaming'.
Each performer is suppose to give the venue their setlist and the writer of each song. This is why American Idol isn't allowed to do certain artists songs on the show.
Post by candyflippedaround on Feb 9, 2011 18:31:18 GMT -5
God this thread took the turn for the god awful and misinformed.
If you want to write off Kanye as a hack because he uses samples, then you have to write off all of hip hop. Licensed to Ill is nothing but other peoples songs with the Beasties rapping over it, and yet somehow no one is challenging the Beastie Boys legitimacy as artists.
if you are going to write off all of hip hop because of sampling, thats your loss. and that painting of oranges analogies is the most ridiculous way of trying to compare rock and roll bands to hip hop producers. if you honestly think anyone is a more talented artist simply because they can play the guitar or drums instead of just knowing how to manipulate sounds in a digital media then good luck to you
edit: also dont think that just because of how large a role sampling has played that there arent original musical compositions written by these guys. they are talented enough to create their own guitar riffs, bass lines, drum beats etc its just that a lot of the time they know someone else has come up with something they love but they just wanna tweak it into their own thing