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If the Eagles get Murray, can we even consider it a collapse? I'm sure it'd be a step down with no Cole or Maclin but hardly a collapse.
If Bradford can stay healthy he could very well shine in the Iggles' spread offense. It would be shameful if they used Sam to recruit DeMarco then trade the QB to move up for Mariota based on Oregon ties.
Post by potentpotables on Mar 12, 2015 8:49:59 GMT -5
The QB name that I saw on Twitter this morning for the Eagles as a good fit was Bryce Petty. Fits the system, much more realistic in terms of draft possibilities. It will be tough for the Eagles to move up to Mariota. If the Bucs take Winston (which seems to be an open secret at this point, at worst), the Titans are rumored to be interested in Mariota (Peter King tweeted that this morning and also two weeks ago I think).
Post by FuzzyWarbles on Mar 12, 2015 8:52:29 GMT -5
Petty and Winston were said to have both been impressive during scout day with Mariota reportedly taking a step back after struggling with the deep pass.
If the Eagles get Murray, can we even consider it a collapse? I'm sure it'd be a step down with no Cole or Maclin but hardly a collapse.
I like Chip Kelly's thinking that just maybe the way that every NFL has tried to build is wrong. He's definitely taken a new approach. It's just tough (IMO) to figure out the big picture from Chip Kelly's perspective.
He's gutted the team and got "his guys", leaving himself at the helm with no scapegoats. Plus, he's loaded the roster with injury risks (DeMarco would just be another). If it doesn't work out he's fired, period.
What it really comes down to is the fact that Kelly hasn't actually proven anything yet. If Belichick were doing this, people would be shocked, but nobody would call it a collapse.
Post by potentpotables on Mar 12, 2015 9:12:43 GMT -5
What Chip is doing is actually pretty amazing. He won 20 games in two seasons and he had the gumption to tell his bosses that it wasn't good enough, they couldn't win big unless they did it his way, get his opponent in the front office demoted...
He obviously said to Jeff Lurie that it was going to take time, but after two seasons that were good he needed to tear the whole thing down, including preconceived notions, and start over. Lurie obviously agreed and I'd say Chip is going to have a few years to prove whether he was right. I'd bet he will be given a lot of slack.
I didn't bother to read all of this, but I'm a huge Eagles fan and am pretty knowledgeable when it comes to the birds and Chip Kelly, so any questions, fire away.
As for this college coach discussion:
Football goes through cycles, contrary to popular belief, college is usually a bit ahead of the curve as less talented teams find new ways to scheme offenses and defense to make up for their talent deficiencies. Good examples of college coaches using this to their advantage are Walsh and Jimmie Johnson.
Are you furious that the Eagles are rotting before our eyes, or are you just disappointed?
Fan perception and league perception are still pretty far apart. We're hardly rotting... taking some chances? You bet, but so did Pete Carrol and Bill Belicheck when they took over. You didn't expect Chip to be conventional, did you?
Here's my view on some of the bigger moves:
The Shady trade - If Kiko plays next year (which I fully expect), we win that trade hands down. Kiko is an animal, and Shady lost some of his lateral agility last year. Mix that with the fact that he's a bad fit for our offense and his salary cap figure, and it's a no brainer. If we sign Murray today, we'll essentially be getting Murray, Kiko, and maybe even Mathews still for the price of Shady. That's brilliant.
Maclin - This is the most disappointing for me, but we clearly tried. I heard we offered a similar contract, but in the end, it's his decision. Luckily, the WR position has never been overly important in the Chip Kelly offense. Think Patriots of the 00's.
Foles trade - This one is tricky. One of the weirder trades in recent memory (which is saying a lot considering we traded an All-Pro RB). In a vacuum, Bradford is the better QB. Better footwork, better arm, better decision making, better in the pocket. BUT, he obviously has injury concerns. Taking this into consideration, I'm upset with the value. I don't think we should have given up Foles and a second (which equals a third this year) but Bradford stays healthy, I think we win this trade too. Bradford is one of the better prospect to enter the NFL in the past 10 years.
Bringing in hurt players - Chip made a good point at his presser yesterday. Last year, Maclin and Kelce were coming off of serious injuries. Kelce told Kelly that the injury rate in the NFL is 100% and that the degree of the injury is what's most important. When Chip was first hired, players and reporters were commenting on his insane attention to detail when it comes to body analysis. Chip is known for his sports science, and reportedly puts a lot of stock into body projection. I assume he uses this information to analyze the likelihood of re-injuries occurring. How accurate this is is yet to be seen, but NFL veterans who have played for multiple organizations have raved about his methods.
Basically, after 2 years, Chip knows that he can take a bunch of square pegs, jam them into round holes, and still have a top 10 offense (efficiency wise, not yardage). Now that he's GM, he's re-aligning his resources. Offense already has such an advantage, and schematically we seem to have some advantage, so why pay all of your money to offensive players? He's accepted the fact that he can coach up on offense, but needs plus athletes on defense to compensate for the offensive advantage teams have around the league. We're still working on our secondary, but our front 7 should be one of the best in football, and they're all in the prime of their careers. Again, it's risky, but let's drop the stigma that it makes absolutely zero sense. If you knew Chip at Oregon, and listened to his press conferences, people should have seen this stuff coming.
FuzzyWarbles - I love some of it, but am skeptical of certain things. It's either going to work really well, or blow up in our face. I don't see much grey area at this point. If it does blow up, at least Eagle's fans got to go along for the ride, and so far, it's been pretty damn fun. You have to give the guy credit, he wants to win really, really bad.
Damn solid analysis Black Dynamite. The one place I disagree is the Foles trade. I think Bradford has a much higher ceiling than Foles, BUUUUUT what you traded for him doesn't represent his market value. Plus he's got one year left on his contract. You have to assume that Bradford was gonna leave STL anyway.
To potentpotables, I agree it is pretty amazing. My point is that if a proven champion a la Belichick where doing this it nobody would be entertaining the idea of a collapse. You have to remember this guy has only been a HC for seven years with two years of NFL experience. He's wearing some pretty big britches so to speak.
Damn solid analysis Black Dynamite. The one place I disagree is the Foles trade. I think Bradford has a much higher ceiling than Foles, BUUUUUT what you traded for him doesn't represent his market value. Plus he's got one year left on his contract. You have to assume that Bradford was gonna leave STL anyway.
To potentpotables, I agree it is pretty amazing. My point is that if a proven champion a la Belichick where doing this it nobody would be entertaining the idea of a collapse. You have to remember this guy has only been a HC for seven years with two years of NFL experience. He's wearing some pretty big britches so to speak.
Thanks.
I completely agree. I mentioned that I was unhappy with the value, but as I was saying to my Eagles buddies yesterday, I think fan value and league value differ quite a bit when it comes to the QB position. Shefter reported that other teams were trying to trade for Bradford, and that the Eagles won the sweepstakes because of Foles. Chip also came out and said yesterday that a team has already called him and offered a first rounder for Bradford (Maybe the Saints offering Seattles first?), so I think the idea that Bradford is done might be more fan perception than league perception. When you look at what teams and coaches have offered over the past few years to get "their guy" flipping Foles and a 2nd doesn't seem so bad. It's not like we mortgaged the future.
It's also worth noting that Foles' contract expires next year as well, so if Chip doesn't think he's the guy, getting something for him is the way to go. Let alone a guy with the potential of Bradford.
I also think Foles is heavily over rated by people due to his 27 and 2 season. That had a lot more to do with Chip than Foles, and he got really lucky throughout that stretch. I've never seen so many dropped interceptions in my life. He has a lot of mechanical deficiencies to work through and regressed pretty heavily in footwork last year. I understand why Chip thinks he needs a bit better to win it all.
Black Dynamite, Chip Kelly has you on your knees drinking his Kool-Aid
Like you're mouth isn't blue?
But really, I'm an NFL fan too. Taking my Eagles bias out of the equation, I still love Kiko and Bradford, and was actually singing Bradford's praises a few weeks ago. I'm upset we lost Maclin, and I'm upset we lost a second, but I think I'm being pretty objective here. I am admittedly a fan of Chip's methods, but so is every other coach in the league. The dude uses science, analytics, and logic, and backs it all up with being maybe the most football obsessed human being I've ever heard of. Coaches who know what they're doing consult Chip, so his Kool-Aid must not be too bad. Don't get me wrong, I'm skeptical as hell, but the people are making wayyyy too much out of this IMO. We weren't winning a Super Bowl with what we had, let's be real. So why not shake it up?
Where specifically do you think I'm giving in too much and drinking the Koo-Aid?
Injury risk aside, this team is getting better on paper, and significantly better on defense. Now, it all comes down to those damn smoothies .
The one thing that I like is that Chip seems to be serious about having backup plans for positions that are at risk.
QB - Signed Sanchez (who had his issues last year, but QB's usually need a full season to fully gain shoulder strength and durability) and I expect we'll draft someone later on.
RB - Murray, Sproles, Polk, and either Mathews or a draft pick
Post by potentpotables on Mar 12, 2015 18:15:37 GMT -5
Just curious - in what way is Murray better than McCoy? Maybe because he has 600 fewer carries in his career or so, but some of that is due to Murray's injury problems. Murray had one excellent year - last year - where he ran behind the best OL in football. McCoy is younger too even though he's been in the league two more seasons.
Just curious - in what way is Murray better than McCoy? Maybe because he has 600 fewer carries in his career or so, but some of that is due to Murray's injury problems. Murray had one excellent year - last year - where he ran behind the best OL in football. McCoy is younger too even though he's been in the league two more seasons.
I'll rephrase that. They got a back of equal value in my opinion, and Kiko.
Just curious - in what way is Murray better than McCoy? Maybe because he has 600 fewer carries in his career or so, but some of that is due to Murray's injury problems. Murray had one excellent year - last year - where he ran behind the best OL in football. McCoy is younger too even though he's been in the league two more seasons.
Also Murray had a lot of fumbling problems last year.
Just curious - in what way is Murray better than McCoy? Maybe because he has 600 fewer carries in his career or so, but some of that is due to Murray's injury problems. Murray had one excellent year - last year - where he ran behind the best OL in football. McCoy is younger too even though he's been in the league two more seasons.
I'll rephrase that. They got a back of equal value in my opinion, and Kiko.
But that doesn't make the trade a "steal," Murray wasn't part of the trade. A steal would indicate that Buffalo got screwed. You were calling it a steal before Murray was on the radar. Things just happened to work out with Murray in a different transaction.
Just curious - in what way is Murray better than McCoy? Maybe because he has 600 fewer carries in his career or so, but some of that is due to Murray's injury problems. Murray had one excellent year - last year - where he ran behind the best OL in football. McCoy is younger too even though he's been in the league two more seasons.
Well, Shady in his prime was a top 5 back, but he's mainly a cutback runner or a second level runner, and losing some lateral quickness last year really hurt his performance. He's just not as fast in and out of his cuts, and since he plays the finesse game, that's a big deal. Demarco is faster, stronger, more decisive, better between the tackles, a better blocker, and actually a better pass catcher. This offense is built to get 4 yards every play. Not 15 yards one play and -5 the next. Demarco's one cut and go style and excellent vision should fit this offense much better.
I'll rephrase that. They got a back of equal value in my opinion, and Kiko.
But that doesn't make the trade a "steal," Murray wasn't part of the trade. A steal would indicate that Buffalo got screwed. You were calling it a steal before Murray was on the radar. Things just happened to work out with Murray in a different transaction.
If you view the salary cap space saved as a part of the trade, it make sense. Without trading McCoy, we don't get Kiko or Demarco. Maybe Mathews... so when you look at the resources available, the freed up cap space was a big deal.
But that doesn't make the trade a "steal," Murray wasn't part of the trade. A steal would indicate that Buffalo got screwed. You were calling it a steal before Murray was on the radar. Things just happened to work out with Murray in a different transaction.
If you view the salary cap space saved as a part of the trade, it make sense. Without trading McCoy, we don't get Kiko or Demarco. Maybe Mathews... so when you look at the resources available, the freed up cap space was a big deal.
Then they blew all that freed up cap space on Bradford's $12.9M a year.
If you view the salary cap space saved as a part of the trade, it make sense. Without trading McCoy, we don't get Kiko or Demarco. Maybe Mathews... so when you look at the resources available, the freed up cap space was a big deal.
Then they blew all that freed up cap space on Bradford's $12.9M a year.
They're currently working on restructuring, and we were going to have to pay a QB money next year anyway. But still, we had 50 mill in cap space, and once Shady was gone, were going to use some of it to get a RB or 2. It's about the amount of money used on the position. Once you trade away a 11 mill in RB salary, you have a bit more to spend on RB.
Post by potentpotables on Mar 13, 2015 8:36:50 GMT -5
I've said earlier in this thread that I believe in Chip and want to see his results, but you Eagles fans are reeeeeeeally drinking the Kool-Aid. It might turn out well, I have a suspicion it will actually. But you guys are pretty far up Chip's ass.
I've said earlier in this thread that I believe in Chip and want to see his results, but you Eagles fans are reeeeeeeally drinking the Kool-Aid. It might turn out well, I have a suspicion it will actually. But you guys are pretty far up Chip's ass.
Not really sure where this is coming from. I've pointed out that I'm skeptical of things, and like certain things. Most Eagles fans are pissed to be honest, because they don't really understand what Chip is doing. So how?
Then they blew all that freed up cap space on Bradford's $12.9M a year.
They're currently working on restructuring, and we were going to have to pay a QB money next year anyway. But still, we had 50 mill in cap space, and once Shady was gone, were going to use some of it to get a RB or 2. It's about the amount of money used on the position. Once you trade away a 11 mill in RB salary, you have a bit more to spend on RB.
I was wondering what kind of restructuring deal was in the works. Bradford knows as well as you and I that his contract doesn't represent performance. On the other side of that coin Foles will likely get overpaid despite his just above average ability.
I just thought they were going to shift more money than they have into the defense.