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Do you really think that any of these people are going to Headline? It's a pretty exclusive slot.
I will not go near anything that Eminem is involved with and frankly the idea that he would not sing "offensive songs" and somehow that would make it acceptable really bothers me.
So what comes next? We don't mind if you beat your wife, just don't do it on the farm?
Of course I'm not a huge fan of the genre in general because of the misogynistic tone. Personally I don't pay money to be called a biznatch or any other derogatory term. Keep him off the farm or you may have fewer women than usual out there as well.
First off, I understand the anti- Eminem sentiment on here. That guys has said some really terrible things in his lyrics regarding almost every minority. (Women, Homosexuals, ect.) So I would be surprised If Eminem were to headline for that reason. That being said, It is a bit unfair to paint an entire genre of music as misogynistic. Many hip hop artist shy away from destructive and derogatory lyrics. ( And personally, I think that Bonnaroo has been good at booking "positive" hip hop acts.) And even though hip hop artist tend to be male, their are several females still holding it down. I mean, Nikki Minaj and Jean Grae are two of my favorite MC's right now.
I had pretty much written the entire genre off until I started going to Bonnaroo. There have been some great positive rap acts that I have really enjoyed. However when it comes to homophobia, and misogyny I am always going to give those people a pass. For that matter to a certain extent I would not be real happy about a percentage of my ticket money going to them.
First off, I understand the anti- Eminem sentiment on here. That guys has said some really terrible things in his lyrics regarding almost every minority. (Women, Homosexuals, ect.) So I would be surprised If Eminem were to headline for that reason. That being said, It is a bit unfair to paint an entire genre of music as misogynistic. Many hip hop artist shy away from destructive and derogatory lyrics. ( And personally, I think that Bonnaroo has been good at booking "positive" hip hop acts.) And even though hip hop artist tend to be male, their are several females still holding it down. I mean, Nikki Minaj and Jean Grae are two of my favorite MC's right now.
I had pretty much written the entire genre off until I started going to Bonnaroo. There have been some great positive rap acts that I have really enjoyed. However when it comes to homophobia, and misogyny I am always going to give those people a pass. For that matter to a certain extent I would not be real happy about a percentage of my ticket money going to them.
Great news this is one of the reasons I love Bonnaroo so much! And Jess you should check out Black Star, or Mos Def and Talib Kweli, they are the two guys that make up Black Star.
1:59 "these simpletons be using the synonym for feminine." Probably my favorite line of all time.
and just because:
And I realize that Mos uses the word "fag" in the first track, But I think he criticizing the typically misogynistic rappers who claim to be "hard."
I've never been a huge fan of "rap", but I like some hip-hop... though I'm still trying to figure out the exact difference.
Jess, on the recommendation of Jake, I've been listening to Black Star. And I'm really enjoying it! I think it's actually something you would enjoy.
I have been listening to it, and I like it pretty well. Talib was amazing in 08. There are plenty of artists in other genres I ignore for the same reasons it is not just hip hop. David Allan Coe comes to mind as one.
Last Edit: Feb 7, 2011 12:14:45 GMT -5 by Deleted - Back to Top
Post by icantenough on Feb 7, 2011 12:51:54 GMT -5
Coe actually wrote a bunch of amazingly awesome songs, like "Lay with me". he had a black drummer, who was married to a white chick.
in this world, you do not have the RIGHT to not be offended. it might sound like a double negative, but it isnt. Doug Stanhope just wrote an amazing article on this subject as it pertains to comedians... and while music isnt solely meant to be funny, it makes up a certain part of it which in turn means that this article fits. www.heraldscotland.com/mobile/comment/guest-commentary/doug-stanhope-on-offensive-comedy-1.1083012
"A few years back I had a show in Edinburgh where – after I’d touched on everything from abortion to child molestation – an audience member flew into a teary rage when I casually mentioned the drug ecstasy. Her sister had died while taking the drug and the mere mention of the word had her screaming across the venue at me as though I was the one responsible for giving her sister that bad batch. I doubt very highly that if Mrs Smith had attended that show that she would have shared in the lady’s outrage. In fact, she probably would have been pissed off at this outburst screwing up my joke. So if Mrs Smith doesn’t feel compelled to take umbrage with everything that someone could find offensive, why should the comedian?"
I think it is just as myopic to equate DAC with "N*****Lover" as it is to equate frank zappa with "don't eat the yellow snow", which most people of low knowledge on the subject of music often do.
Coe actually wrote a bunch of amazingly awesome songs, like "Lay with me". he had a black drummer, who was married to a white chick.
in this world, you do not have the RIGHT to not be offended. it might sound like a double negative, but it isnt. Doug Stanhope just wrote an amazing article on this subject as it pertains to comedians... and while music isnt solely meant to be funny, it makes up a certain part of it which in turn means that this article fits. www.heraldscotland.com/mobile/comment/guest-commentary/doug-stanhope-on-offensive-comedy-1.1083012
"A few years back I had a show in Edinburgh where – after I’d touched on everything from abortion to child molestation – an audience member flew into a teary rage when I casually mentioned the NO NO WORD!!! ecstasy. Her sister had died while taking the NO NO WORD!!! and the mere mention of the word had her screaming across the venue at me as though I was the one responsible for giving her sister that bad batch. I doubt very highly that if Mrs Smith had attended that show that she would have shared in the lady’s outrage. In fact, she probably would have been pissed off at this outburst screwing up my joke. So if Mrs Smith doesn’t feel compelled to take umbrage with everything that someone could find offensive, why should the comedian?"
I think it is just as myopic to equate DAC with "N*****Lover" as it is to equate frank zappa with "don't eat the yellow snow", which most people of low knowledge on the subject of music often do.
I certainly have the right not to support musicians who glorify violence against women, and homosexuals. Just like I have the right to not support musicians like DAC who glorify racism. It is not a matter of being offended it is a matter of not choosing to support them. I also do not go see Andrew Dice Clay comedy shows for more or less the same reasons.
Like I said before if I was a white rapper and started using the N-word as a synonym for coward, thief, bad person etc... I would be called a racist, and nobody except skinheads would listen to my music. Why then should Eminem get a free pass for doing this with the word f@ggot? If Doug Stanhope started using F@ggot this way people would start equating HIM with the Dice man. Also I still do not get how your first sentence is not a double negative.
Post by icantenough on Feb 7, 2011 13:14:36 GMT -5
because if you remove the 2 "negatives" it does not mean the same thing. do you think that you have the right to be offended? it really isnt a right to be had, which is why i go the double negative route.
eh, to each his own though. I find that this world isnt gumdrops and rainbows jizzing PLUR all over the world. art is a reflection of society, to go even further, a reflection of an individual perspective of society. I hate having to use the phrase "N-word" on here. it is a word. same goes for shit, cock, cunt, fuck or whatever else gets bleeped out. you are a big boy, if you can handle Roo, im pretty sure you can handle "bad words".
anyway, back to the point. I came to the conclusion long ago that there is a way to appreciate anything and everything, you just have to figure out how. Just because it is offensive, abhorrent, grotesque, vile, malicious or nefarious, does not mean that there is no way to appreciate or gain perspective from it.
quack, this thread has officially gone to shit like everything else. here's hoping that the lineup comes out tomorrow so I don't have to waste my time looking for an intelligent conversation based on the actual original topic.
Let me clarify a bit guys, I'd hate to have Eminem there for the reasons I've already stated not to mention that I'd prefer AC spend the pile of money he would cost on someone else.
I don't eliminate the hip hop genre completely as frankly I don't know enough of it to make a determination like that. My husband listens to a lot more of it and has turned me on to some great stuff. Hell, I even bought him production credit on Public Enemy's new album on Sellaband.
Believe me I am well aware that the world is not perfect and I think my experiences reinforce my decision not to listen to his crap.
Akon, DMX, Chiddy Bang, and D12 are all out there, but D12 would be the only one even close to big enough to headline and that's just going back to having Em as part of the group.
Post by fake neil young on Feb 7, 2011 14:45:28 GMT -5
Eminem's not actually homophobic. His homophobic lyrics are all satirical, as is much of the personalities he projects (or at least used to). Christ, the dude gave Elton John and his partner a set of cock rings as a wedding present. He openly supports gay marriage.
Eminem's not actually homophobic. His homophobic lyrics are all satirical, as is much of the personalities he projects (or at least used to). Christ, the dude gave Elton John and his partner a set of tallywhacker rings as a wedding present. He openly supports gay marriage.
Exactly. I hate to be that guy that says "You just don't GET IT" but seriously, I don't think some people do. I'm not a huge eminem fan, but I respect his talent and passion and would not be upset one bit if he were to be on the farm.
We've got 3 possible acts - Beyonce, OutKast and Dr. Dre/Eminem.
Jay-Z, Kanye and Lil' Wayne have been ruled out.
Gorillaz broke up.
Wu Tang, Drake, Public Enemy, ATCQ, and Cudi are not big enough. There's no way to really argue that they are.
Puff Daddy is pretty big, but his last album sucked and the only way he could headline would be with a huge crew (Ma$e, Lil' Kim, Faith Evans, etc.). Oh, and this isn't Bonnaroo 1999 we're talking about.
Black Eyed Peas didn't headline Outside Lands and would be a disaster of a choice for the top billed act. I'd be shocked if Superfly thought they were legitimate enough to hold down the #1 slot. If anyone actually thinks Superfly would have them as their top billed act, then they missed the Halftime show last night. Or just have never listened to the BEP.
So, we've got ourselves a couple options to pick from based on process of elimination:
1. It's some version of Dr. Dre & Eminem 2. They reunited OutKast 3. They booked Beyonce 4. Insider got it wrong and Saturday is a rock headliner with a fairly big rap LN (Drake on Which).
#s 2 & 3 are unlikely based on probability which leaves either it's Dre/Eminem or we're missing a piece of the puzzle.
There isn't really another way to look at it. There are 7 rap acts capable of headlining, and when 3 have been ruled out, 2 are broken up then we're down to Eminem/Dre and Beyonce. So, either we're getting Dr. Dre/Eminem or Insider is wrong.
eminem's not big enough to headline bonnaroo and therefore won't. do you really think for bonnaroo 10 we're gonna have eminem as the big saturday headliner, or any rapper or hip hop group for that matter? the only band that could do it would be the beastie boys and there's no reason to have them back this soon. i think this whole rap headliner thing is just an attempt to throw us off.
Not big enough? that is an ignorant comment I think.
I'm not a huge fan myself, but have mad respect for what this guy has achieved and do enjoy a fair amount of his music. As already pointed out he had TWO superbowl commercials this year... I don't think I seen anyone else with that honor this year.
Further, many people may not know this, but the guy sells albums like mad. He has more record sales than (this is just a few examples) 1) Tupac 2) The Doors (granted they had a much smaller market back then) 3) BEP 4) AND.... Jay-Z
I think Em with a little visit from Dre would be great. And would be monumental with Snoop in the mix. If we are getting a hip hop act sat night, I think these 3 gentleman deserve more than anyone else at the moment.
Eminem's not actually homophobic. His homophobic lyrics are all satirical, as is much of the personalities he projects (or at least used to). Christ, the dude gave Elton John and his partner a set of tallywhacker rings as a wedding present. He openly supports gay marriage.
That is the same thing said about DAC, I still do not want to hear songs like My wife ran off with a N*****, or support people who think it is funny or satire. I do not understand how you can satirize something by glorifying it, then stating in interviews you don't really mean it.
Eminem by himself would still be a headliner, kind of underwhelming though for the Saturday night slot which is typically a megastar (Bruce, Stevie -> Jay-Z, Pearl Jam, Radiohead). However, if Dr. Dre is billed with him it will easily be one of the biggest 'gets' on the modern U.S. festival circuit.
Post by fake neil young on Feb 7, 2011 15:09:42 GMT -5
Most of Eminem's songs don't have any homophobia, satirical or not, and he's been leaning away from that kinda stuff especially in recent years. That said he's still going to say a burning bundle of sticks because it's part of his vocabulary. There is no pervasive homophobia in his music though, and when anything does come out it's when he's at his most wacky and/or intentionally offensive.
And how about an extra-long headline spot shared between the Black Keys and Danger Mouse, maybe with Cee-Lo thrown in? I don't know if it all adds up to a headliner, but I'd take it over many possible headliners.
I think Eminem & Dre is still most likely. Maybe Snoop will show up. I'd still kill for Outkast though.
The thing that would make me nervous about signing Eminem, and might make AC hesitant to sign him, is the risk of relapse/rehab. 4 months is a long time to bet on.
That said, no one else appeals to me in hippity hoppity wurld.
Isn't he in Recovery mode now? LOL.
I'm pretty sure AC has booked much more unpredictable acts over the years. Think about it.
Considering how many times Trey Anastasio as well as countless other unpredictable and drug-using acts have been on the farm, i'd think they'd have bigger concerns. But who knows, it could be an issue, but we'll find out (hopefully) within a week or two.
EDIT: Also, with Black Keys pre-headlining, my guess is that there would/should be some sort of BlakRoc segment to their show, get Mos Def and a few other artists up there with them and it could be an incredible diverse show
Eminem's not actually homophobic. His homophobic lyrics are all satirical, as is much of the personalities he projects (or at least used to). Christ, the dude gave Elton John and his partner a set of tallywhacker rings as a wedding present. He openly supports gay marriage.
That is the same thing said about DAC, I still do not want to hear songs like My wife ran off with a N*****, or support people who think it is funny or satire. I do not understand how you can satirize something by glorifying it, then stating in interviews you don't really mean it.
You know... many people attacked him for his song Love the Way You Lie...
many others also praised him for bringing light on a very sensitive subject and got people talking about something taboo (such as we are doing in this forum).
I think to discount his music cause you don't like hearing the N word or you really believe he does it for 'fun' is poor judgement. To be fair, I used to dislike him too when I was younger, then someone told me to open up my ears and listen for myself and not just look at the 'cover of the book.'
That is the same thing said about DAC, I still do not want to hear songs like My wife ran off with a N*****, or support people who think it is funny or satire. I do not understand how you can satirize something by glorifying it, then stating in interviews you don't really mean it.
You know... many people attacked him for his song Love the Way You Lie...
many others also praised him for bringing light on a very sensitive subject and got people talking about something taboo (such as we are doing in this forum).
I think to discount his music cause you don't like hearing the N word or you really believe he does it for 'fun' is poor judgement. To be fair, I used to dislike him too when I was younger, then someone told me to open up my ears and listen for myself and not just look at the 'cover of the book.'
Yep. Reminds me of my parents who just hate when people use "bad words"; judging the substance of the conversation based on the content and not the context and intent.
You know... many people attacked him for his song Love the Way You Lie...
many others also praised him for bringing light on a very sensitive subject and got people talking about something taboo (such as we are doing in this forum).
I think to discount his music cause you don't like hearing the N word or you really believe he does it for 'fun' is poor judgement. To be fair, I used to dislike him too when I was younger, then someone told me to open up my ears and listen for myself and not just look at the 'cover of the book.'
Yep. Reminds me of my parents who just hate when people use "bad words"; judging the substance of the conversation based on the content and not the context and intent.
I hear ya... my dad freaked on me the first time he flipped through my Pearl Jam Vitalogy CD cause it looked satanic... so I played Better Man for him and then he left me alone.
Post by kkrrissttinnaa on Feb 7, 2011 15:28:54 GMT -5
Okay, I see where y'all are coming from about Eminem not actually being homophobic, but I think it's irresponsible for him to use the language he does, because I'd argue that the vast majority of people who listen to those words (and I know some of them) don't think he's kidding around... and that makes me really uncomfortable.
...(Can you tell I'm really passionate about this topic?)
Okay, I see where y'all are coming from about Eminem not actually being homophobic, but I think it's irresponsible for him to use the language he does, because I'd argue that the vast majority of people who listen to those words (and I know some of them) don't think he's kidding around... and that makes me really uncomfortable.
...(Can you tell I'm really passionate about this topic?)
Also, to whomever Leno'd me... :-(.
Who cares what the vast majority of people think?
Eminem surely didn't get in the business to please everyone.
Okay, I see where y'all are coming from about Eminem not actually being homophobic, but I think it's irresponsible for him to use the language he does, because I'd argue that the vast majority of people who listen to those words (and I know some of them) don't think he's kidding around... and that makes me really uncomfortable.
...(Can you tell I'm really passionate about this topic?)
Also, to whomever Leno'd me... :-(.
Who cares what the vast majority of people think?
Eminem surely didn't get in the business to please everyone.
For me, the word "f@g" is really hurtful, and I just can't be into an artist who tosses it around in his music like it's nothing. It's shit like that that makes living in the US (or anywhere, really) an uncomfortable, hostile environment for those of us who identify as queer.
Regardless, I'm sure that if he headlines he'll draw a huge crowd... I just won't be in said crowd.
Eminem surely didn't get in the business to please everyone.
For me, the word "f@g" is really hurtful, and I just can't be into an artist who tosses it around in his music like it's nothing. It's Leno like that that makes living in the US (or anywhere, really) an uncomfortable, hostile environment for those of us who identify as queer.
Regardless, I'm sure that if he headlines he'll draw a huge crowd... I just won't be in said crowd.
My sentiments precisely. Let me give you your point back people are really into smiting today it seems like.
Last Edit: Feb 7, 2011 15:39:59 GMT -5 by Deleted - Back to Top
Okay, I see where y'all are coming from about Eminem not actually being homophobic, but I think it's irresponsible for him to use the language he does, because I'd argue that the vast majority of people who listen to those words (and I know some of them) don't think he's kidding around... and that makes me really uncomfortable.
...(Can you tell I'm really passionate about this topic?)
Also, to whomever Leno'd me... :-(.
Who cares what the vast majority of people think?
Eminem surely didn't get in the business to please everyone.
No he certainly didn't.
To me music is about expressing yourself and the guy DID grow up on the fringes of society (where the masses live) and sings about what he saw. The guy seen a lot of hate growing up and without his music, he'd just be another white punk kid from Detroit; and nobody would care if we called him white trash. He was an outcast from society and now he basically mocks it all; cause to him its all BS. For example, the same people that give him crap about calling people f@gg0ts have probably never joined in a single march in support of gay marriage. Double standard? If not, then why isn't gay marriage legal everywhere? If it is that big a deal that he sings about it, then everyone everywhere should be out there helping these guys out with their fight, but they won't.
He sings about the truth for a lot of people and many people can relate to him. And musically, lets be honest, the guy has talent. Musically, he deserves a shot at roo and if he brings his A game... I think he would rip up the stage like Jay-Z; gaining many new fans. And the guy is not an idiot... I think he has more than the ability to acknowledge he is at 'roo' and will act accordingly.
Eminem surely didn't get in the business to please everyone.
For me, the word "f@g" is really hurtful, and I just can't be into an artist who tosses it around in his music like it's nothing. It's Leno like that that makes living in the US (or anywhere, really) an uncomfortable, hostile environment for those of us who identify as queer.
Regardless, I'm sure that if he headlines he'll draw a huge crowd... I just won't be in said crowd.
A word is a word. It only means what people prescribe to it. Most black people will find a certain racial slur very offensive coming from a KKK member, but that same racial slur coming from one of their friends may be completely acceptable.
To write off the likes of Eminem because you don't like a few words causes you to miss the bigger picture. If you listened closely to his messages they aren't of hating homosexuals or woman, regardless of what words he may use.
Again, i'm not even a huge fan of his but I just hate people writing him off because they think he's something that he isn't. If he truly ranted against homosexuals and women like you think he does then he wouldn't have the extremely large fan base that he has.