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I don't know if anyone out there has been following the 9/11 hearings, and the testimony of Richard Clarke or not, but I find it very interesting. A couple of days ago when Clarke testified he gave, what seemed to me to be, a heartfelt apology to the families of the 9/11 victims for the Clinton and Bush administrations failures to identify and stop such an attack. He's the only person from either administration to do so. Yesterday Rep. Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist went as far as to say that his apology was not heartfelt but was a ploy to sell more books! How far is this gonna go. If I was Clarke I'd be really peeved. He swallowed his pride and said in affect "I'm Sorry for my failures." This is far more than than Bush administration is willing to say. I mean anytime there is critisizm of this administration they come out and try and assasinate the charatcter of that person. Shouldn't they honestly answer these questions that have been brought up. Or do they have something to hide? You will never hear this administration admidt to doing anything wrong, with 9/11, Iraq, Medicare, Etc. Wasn't our country founded by people who weren't afraid to speak out against what they thought was wrong. But suddenly this is unpatriotic. I myself am sick and tired of the negativity against these so-called "unpatriotic" people. Answer the d*mn question and stop trying to change the subject. Sorry to bring politics onto this board of Bonnaroo fun and fantasy, but this is OUR country. If we don't care who will. Bring on Bonnaroo so I can forget these things that plague my mind for a few days. Thanks for reading.
Danbird, I haven't really followed the actual hearings. I have heard bits and pieces of what Clarke has to say. I agree with you. The Bush administration will never take ownership for anything negative that they've done.
Danbird, we have gone through three years of systematic conditioning which has been very effective on what seems like a majority of people in the country. By utilizing the fear of further violence the government has successfully convinced the public to give up fundamental freedoms for a false sense of security. I'm afraid they will do just about anything to maintain that power base. It's scary when the latest polls show that people are buying the Bush line that Clark is lying for political gain. I agree we need Roo to escape for a few days....but we also need to vote in November! Otherwise, who knows what they will be able to do in the next four years. Life, Love, Peace, Music.... if only it were all as simple as Bonnaroo...
Post by PhinePhineMusic on Mar 28, 2004 9:27:30 GMT -5
Right on, Danbird...I don't know how anyone thinks we could survive another four years under these clowns...
I've lost so much faith in our system over the past four years, but I don't know who's more to blame: this awful administration, or the hopeless Americans they continue to dupe?
Yea I saw Clarke on Meet the Press this moring and he summed up pretty much exactly how I feel, especially on Iraq. His message is one that needs to get out. How can everybody forget the REAL reason we went to war? Do they forget or do they choose to ignore?
Yeah Richard Clark!! Yes I have been follwing the 911 hearings and I watched him on Meet the Press he really called out the Bush Administration. When asked if he was being light on Clinton and hard on Bush he responding by saying "No" because Clinton actually made terrorism a priortity and did something while the Bush administration did nothing. His interview on Meet the Press was pretty damning towards Bush,Cheney, & Rumsfeld. It is about time someone stood up to these thugs! Amie
Richard Clarke did a great job testifying. I want to see Condoleeza Rice sit down before the commision. I don't see why she went on "60 Minutes" but still refuses to speak to the commision. I understand there is a precedent of the National Security Adviser not testifying before congressional commitees but there has never been an incident like 9/11 before and so I think that the uniqueness of the situation should supercede the history of the National Security Adviser and their interaction with congressional commitees. Besides, in order to come to the most accurate conclusion there should be a comprehensive list of people willing to testify.
This board was just all about the good vibes until someone had to bring politics into it. Why couldnt everyone just keep all this crap off of this board. Whether or not i agree with you is irrelavent because there are some of the 138+ that will not agree with your bush bashing. I would say that most people involved in the jam scene tend to sway towards the Liberal side but there are Conservative, moderates (either liberal or conservative), and those who just dont care. why dont we keep the preaching elswhere.
They're called opinions. Everyone has them. If you don't like the thread don't read it. This is REAL life and alot of other people care about it. I don't think I ever bashed Bush in either of my posts. I just want to get a disscussion on the topic with like minded people. If there are some Bush lovers out there, I'd love to hear from them. I'm trying to get a debate because it's a healthy thing. This is something that I personally care alot about, because it's our future. I'm not asking that you agree with me, just that you listen with an open mind and join in if you feel so inclined. Most people would rather not think about the things going on in the world and just ignore them. That's thier choice, but I choose to stay informed so I can make informed decisions. Music and "good vibes" are the ideal place to be, but that's not the world I live in most of the time
I think the subject heading makes it pretty clear what the topic of the thread is and its very easy to avoid if you don't want to read it. I really appreciate the good vibes on this board as well (and at Bonnaroo) but I don't think that a thread that is accurately titled and posted in the off-topic board does anything harmful if everyone shares their opinions respectfully. I would have to say that the closest thing to "bad vibes" I've seen on this board was the subject of this thread being called "crap."
Personally I wish the whole scene was MORE political. I found it sort of depressing that given what was going on in the world at last years Bonnaroo (our elected representatives were in the midst of bombing and starving tens of thousands of people, mostly women and children in Afghanistan and Iraq) that everything was so apolitical. A healthy dose of Spearhead really made my weekend. His music is a wonderful example of good, positive energy that attempts to recognize and acknowledge what is wrong with the world so that it can be changed with positive energy and positive action. When I'm at Bonnaroo, I don't want to forget the realities of the world, I want to work towards ways that the wonderful, respectful community we create there and what it represents can be extended past that weekend and into the communities we all live in.
In any case, if you have a different political opinion than those being expressed on this thread, I'd be happy to try to discuss it respectfully if you are interested. Since I have relatively extreme political opinions, I'm used to most of my family and friends REALLY disagreeing with me, and we always manage to discuss our opinions in a way that's fruitful for everyone and still get along.
As for the hearings, I think Clarke is bringing some important things to light, and the fact that he was in Bush's employ gives him some credibility, but I'm not sure that what he (as well as Clinton and the Democrats) had in mind instead of the Iraq War was such a great thing either. The thing I find to be truly amazing is that for all of the wringing of hands over 9/11, we can have this huge panel hold hearings about causes and possible responses and noone ever thinks to ask "Why would someone want to attack our country?" Could this question have something to do with why 9/11 happened and what we could do to prevent another attack? I think maybe so! The accepted answer to this question seems to be: because we are good and they are evil. That is extremely juvenile. It is also representative of the arrogant attitude of our leaders (Democrat and Republican) and our foreign policy that causes a large portion of the world to hate what the U.S. represents and what the U.S. does to countries that disagree with it. These people (Clinton and Bush and the rest of them) are our elected representatives. We are responsible for the things that they do and we have a responsibility to change things if we don't like what is going on.
I consider myself to be a Conservative. I work in politics in Washington, DC. Im not a hardline Republican. I disagree with much of what they believe in. The fact that the party is sometimes dominated by corporate interests is troublesome. I also love the outdoors and believe that the GOP has screwed it up big time when it comes to Environmental Issues. Regardless: I feel strongly about limited government, low taxes, tort reform, and a strong national defense. I believe that the government that governs least governs best. Whether you agree with that or not that is the philosophical idea behind being a Conservative.
sorry added on to previous post... Ok, I complained about it but I will throw my hat into the ring. I think that Clarke's testimony would normally be a valuable addition to the debate on who dropped the ball on 9/11. At first glance you would say that he does not have some ideological agenda to pursue by saying this or that about who screwed all this up. He served for Bush I, Clinton, and Bush II. He basically worked an equal number of years for Democratic and Republican bosses. He was also claims that he is a registered Republican who voted for Reagan and both Bushes. There are a few things that bother me most however about this guy. #1: It is proven that he was passed over for a promotion by W’s people. After not receiving the promotion he left (amicably at the time) his post and went elsewhere. #2 It is also fact that he approached the President and told him how strong of a leader he was and how he felt safe knowing that Bush was running the country. #3 Whether you like it or not he coincided all this stuff in coordination with a book release. Say what you will but that is fishy. A little lesson about politics: Almost everyone has an agenda. It wouldn’t be politics if they didn’t. Clinton had 8 years to take out Osama. That’s the truth. Bush was in office for 9 months. The hijackers were already in the U.S. The plan had been hatched and was already in progress. Clinton’s DOD had to beg him to launch cruise missles at Osama after the Embassy Bombings in Africa. Clinton cut the CIA’s budget considerably. People try to make it seem like we had never heard of Osama before 9/11. We had a clear shot to take out Osama in the 90’s. He was in the Sudan outside basically waving to our satellites. Clinton did nothing. That’s the truth. It is known that he was deathly afraid to use the military in any way. Its not a black and white issue for sure. Did Bush make mistakes leading up to 9/11? I am sure. The fact of the matter however is that he had already begun to increase spending for intelligence and national defense.
I do not want to step on toes but--the way I heard it was... No, Richard Clark was not really passed over for a promotion. The current administration had asked him if they could consider him for another position and he said sure put me on the list. He did also state that when he left the post of head of counterterrorism it was on his own accord and that the paper trail in Washington proves that. Yes, I do agree with you that it is fishy that this all coincides with his book release but since he being attacked from every direction including his professional career ,(he has been told by people in Washington that he will never work in that town again), I am sure he is looking to make some money. He did state, however, that a large portion of his book sales will go to survivors of 9/11 and troops & families affected bythe war in Afghanistan. Also, Clinton was the first President in something like 50 years to order a government sanctioned "hit" on a person, Osam bin Ladan. So while he may have dropped the ball when he had the chance he at least did do something. I also think it is fruitless to try and blame one person for the mess before 9/11 and agree with the post that we really need to look at the reason of Why people would attack innocent people in our county? FYI I did not vote for Clinton or Bush and consider myself an independent and would vote probably vote straight green party if I could. I also feel it is healthy to debate politics in a friendly matter and part of the poblem with our government is one side does not want to hear the other. I really respect and admire everyone's post on this because it allows me hear & understand what other people have on their minds. It's all about connecting without necesssarily agreeing with each other. Everyone in America is entitled to an opinion. Peace!
BEAUTIFUL. This was my hope by starting this thread. That both sides could find some sort of middle ground. I love to hear from all sides of spectrum. Debate is a GOOD thing. Too often people are afraid to think, to use common sense. Which is the main problem here in America. Republicans vote republican, democrats vote democrat. Often times without even knowing who the candidate is. This troubles me. Shouldn't we try and understand what a candidate stands for and not vote strictly along party lines? To me they all sound the same. A whole lot of promises with a whole lot of nothing getting done.
We need to take a more pro-active approach with our standing in the world and here at home. So many people are complacent. They don't seem to care what goes on around them. As long as they have thier nice car, thier nice house, and thier cozy job, who gives a sh*t what other people think or have to live like. This is one of the reasons that has caused most of the world to hate us. CAUSE WE DON'T CARE! We are apart of this world, not some island unto ourselves. Now it seems that anyone who goes against our narrow mindset is our enemy. We are the world leaders. We should start acting like it, and stop trying to enforce our will on everyone else. If we continue to do this it will be our unraveling.
This is why I feel this election is soooo important. I can't really comprehend where 4 more years of this nonsense is going to take us. March on Damascus anyone! The world is a screwed up place with enough war to go around. We don't need to make it any worse with our premptive war over a supposed "Imminent Threat". We need more peace and love here on earth, not war. First though, we need to care about our brothers and sisters here beside us. This is where it begins. It sounds cliche but it's true. Both sides, and everywhere inbetween, need to understand this and start thinking about what we can do to change this climate of complacency. I'm glad to see that there are some of you out there Dan
Post by BonnarooPaul on Apr 2, 2004 17:31:41 GMT -5
I get into these political discussions all the time every day so I'll give you guys what my opinion on the whole thing...
I USED to be democrat and have changed it now to independent. I won't vote for Bush and won't vote for Kerry.
My opinion is that the two-party system is killing American politics. The reason is that people tend to get into one of the two parties and start focusing more on making sure the other party doesn't win, rather than focusing on candidates for their own party that would make great presidents.
liberal this and liberal that. conservative this and conservative that...that's all i hear on MOST debates. I respect cubfanz opinion because he seems to have opinions on both sides of the spectrum depending on the subject. That's how it should be. Now most of my opinions will fall on the liberal side but I do have some that fall on the conservative side.
Now as far as Bush goes, he's a terrible president. He was a terrible governor, had no kind of quality experience, and really showed me nothing whatsoever that would make me think he could be a good president. He went on his father's name and the Republican party bought it. Kerry isn't a savior either and he sounds worse every day.
summing up the two parties: Republican- it's all about the rich and there are several hypocritical points to what they claim they are for(for example, government out of your life, yet they ban gay marriages and push religion on you many times)
Democrats- always preach to be for the common man but are just as corrupt underneath and in my opinion are traitors...
so really it doesn't matter which party you're in, you should just be a person who votes and has his/her opinions on both sides of the spectrum depending on the subject..
oh and one other thing...Bush is terrible, i mean terrible terrible terrible as a president....just terrible.
I mean, c'mon, someone's gotta...
