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[for context, I've been to every Bonnaroo since 2008. I started coming for the amazing indie rock lineups, and then got really into the Dead and jam bands in general around 2012]
Having just read the entire "Only 46k tickets" thread in the what board, it seems that consensus is that the organizers expected the Dead to draw in a lot more people than they are. A couple of thoughts I wanted to share:
* Bonnaroo has been a punchline within the jam community since somewhere around 2010 (maybe as early as the Radiohead booking in 2006, but that's debatable). Easy to understand if you consider that the lineups from 2002 - 2005 are downright pornographic for a jam head. I'm not even sure there's an equivalent for other genres of music. Maybe having a top six of Outkast, Jay-Z, Kanye, Snoop & Dre, Kendrick, and Wu-Tang from a hip-hop perspective, and then fill every line in the mid and undercard with even more awesome MC's
* The Dead toured heavily last fall, particularly on the east coast and in the midwest, where Bonnaroo draws many attendees from. They're touring heavily in the midwest in June / July, and lawn tickets to those shows are about $50, or 1/9th the cost of a GA ticket (not factoring in any travel or on-site expenses).
* a significant portion of the fanbase are retired (or at least in their late 50s / early 60s) -- many of them were able to relive the glory days last year and aren't necessarily going to hit a show this summer. Old people also tend to avoid camping festivals for obvious reasons
* while there are some other jam bands on the lineup, the jam scene is more focused on ideological purity than most. Anyone who sees Ellie Goulding and Macklemore is going to have an immediate and negative reaction
* The Dead are doing a two night stand at Alpine Valley in July, which is essentially going to function as a mini-festival. I can see two nights of the Dead there for under $100, have way cooler weather, and not be around EDM kids
* a lot of the band's absolutely massive New England fanbase is going to go to Lock'n because it's closer, cheaper, and has a much better lineup for a jam head
* Mayer's fanbase is not really crossing over into Dead & Co at all from what I can tell, which negates much of his considerable draw
TL;DR Bonnaroo organizers have minimal to no understanding of the jam scene if they thought Dead & Co was going to be a huge draw. The core four with Warren or Trey would definitely sell out the farm though
My number one theory was that they were a year too late in this booking. I felt like it truly was to make up for last year not getting The Grateful Dead. Almost like them saying "Look we got them THIS YEAR".
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My number one theory was that they were a year too late in this booking. I felt like it truly was to make up for last year not getting The Grateful Dead. Almost like them saying "Look we got them THIS YEAR".
I think they will be awesome regardless
there was zero chance the core four were playing any shows besides Santa Clara and Soldier Field anyways...that might have been the most ridiculous Bonnaroo rumor I've ever seen, which is saying a lot
Providing an outlet and a voice for music lovers to unite under the common theme of music for all. Join The Pondo Army to show your allegiance to musical freedom! Fighting for no censorship of the arts & music education in schools, The Pondo Army will triumph! The Pondo Army Movement
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Post by Whereispassionpit on Jun 6, 2016 7:42:30 GMT -5
Are the headliners really fine? Pearl Jam are touring heavily and tickets to their shows are around $80 all around, Dead and Co's are touring everywhere and I'm getting email alerts about discount specials for their show in my town (4 tickets for $100, only happens when sales are not going well), and LCD Soundsystem has the smallest following of any headliner ever.
You can like the headliners, but continuing to say "the headliners are fine" ain't gonna make it so. They don't appeal to the the college demographic whatsoever, especially not for $400
Are the headliners really fine? Pearl Jam are touring heavily and tickets to their shows are around $80 all around, Dead and Co's are touring everywhere and I'm getting email alerts about discount specials for their show in my town (4 tickets for $100, only happens when sales are not going well), and LCD Soundsystem has the smallest following of any headliner ever.
You can like the headliners, but continuing to say "the headliners are fine" ain't gonna make it so. They don't appeal to the the college demographic whatsoever, especially not for $400
I mean, is Radiohead appealing to the "college demographic?" Is Guns N' Roses? I don't necessarily think that they are, but maybe I'm mistaken. It feels like Bonnaroo could have sold a lot more tickets with a few big name EDM acts, as much as I loathe pretty much everyone who falls into that category. As it is, they loaded up the top 20 with a lot of forgettable mid-level acts that aren't really anything exciting.
Edit: Also, Pearl Jam has like 7 tour dates total this year, so I don't know that they're "touring heavily."
Plus the 17 shows they already played this year! I think the headliners are ok. Pearl Jam is a bucketlist artist for me. Dead I could care less about and LCD is everywhere and honestly IMO not a headliner. I could see LCD as a late nite artist like Lips where. The undercard is mediocre at best. No true EDM artist this year worth buying tickets for. It's all a perfect storm of mediocrity to me and the sales reflect that.
Are the headliners really fine? Pearl Jam are touring heavily and tickets to their shows are around $80 all around, Dead and Co's are touring everywhere and I'm getting email alerts about discount specials for their show in my town (4 tickets for $100, only happens when sales are not going well), and LCD Soundsystem has the smallest following of any headliner ever.
You can like the headliners, but continuing to say "the headliners are fine" ain't gonna make it so. They don't appeal to the the college demographic whatsoever, especially not for $400
I believe they thought they knocked it out of the park with these headliners. I mean on paper they really did, Pearl Jam is still one of the biggest and best rock bands in the world. The Dead is The Dead and were like the base of the beginning of this festival. LCD was a huge get even if they ended up being everywhere else. The problem is they greatly misjudged their audience. It's mostly kids now and kids these days don't really care about those headliners. They booked a lot of pop stuff for the kids, but it doesn't fit at all with the headliners. They have 2 huge rock band headliners but very little rock on the rest of the lineup. For most of the undercard they went more by popularity than by bands that are known to be great live. This may be the biggest change in the festival. I've been trying hard to pinpoint why everyone is so disappointed/ how they failed. Bonnaroo in the past was all about great live bands. There may be a lot of good funk, jam stuff near the bottom of the lineup. But it's mostly unknown bands. It's just a really bad mix. In the past they had great variety and a little randomness but it managed to come together in a lineup that worked. This year is just too disjointed and it failed. I'm wondering if it was different people doing the booking or did they just do it differently? What caused it to fail?
My group of 6 that are going couldn't be less interested in the headliners. I really love PJ and LCD, could care less about Dead, but it's looking to me that the demographic Roo uses as its base (college-aged attendees) has shown its lack of interest in this lineup.
Also, I'm still baffled by the Macklemore booking. His album flopped HARD and he's only playing one other US festival (in his hometown no less), so i don't understand the Top 10 booking.
Are the headliners really fine? Pearl Jam are touring heavily and tickets to their shows are around $80 all around, Dead and Co's are touring everywhere and I'm getting email alerts about discount specials for their show in my town (4 tickets for $100, only happens when sales are not going well), and LCD Soundsystem has the smallest following of any headliner ever.
You can like the headliners, but continuing to say "the headliners are fine" ain't gonna make it so. They don't appeal to the the college demographic whatsoever, especially not for $400
I mean, is Radiohead appealing to the "college demographic?" Is Guns N' Roses? I don't necessarily think that they are, but maybe I'm mistaken. It feels like Bonnaroo could have sold a lot more tickets with a few big name EDM acts, as much as I loathe pretty much everyone who falls into that category. As it is, they loaded up the top 20 with a lot of forgettable mid-level acts that aren't really anything exciting.
Edit: Also, Pearl Jam has like 7 tour dates total this year, so I don't know that they're "touring heavily."
People still care about Radiohead's new music and everyone knows Guns N Roses' songs, so maybe those would have been better, not sure. I feel in years prior the #1 name was one that people would pay $200+ to see on their own, and was followed with more current acts (Kanye, Mumford, etc.). Even Billy Joel, who people seemed to think was the lowest point for Bonnaroo, sold out an arena in my town this year with floor tickets going for like $250.
I can just tell you that the announcement of headliners was met with a "who??" or "meh.." from pretty much everyone in my circle, which is mostly people in their early 20's. I couldn't name a single Pearl Jam or Grateful Dead song before the rumors of them playing started on here.
Are the headliners really fine? Pearl Jam are touring heavily and tickets to their shows are around $80 all around, Dead and Co's are touring everywhere and I'm getting email alerts about discount specials for their show in my town (4 tickets for $100, only happens when sales are not going well), and LCD Soundsystem has the smallest following of any headliner ever.
You can like the headliners, but continuing to say "the headliners are fine" ain't gonna make it so. They don't appeal to the the college demographic whatsoever, especially not for $400
The problem is they greatly misjudged their audience. It's mostly kids now and kids these days don't really care about those headliners. They booked a lot of pop stuff for the kids, but it doesn't fit at all with the headliners.
I think this is spot on from my experience. It's like they realized their headliners appealed to an older crowd than usual and then they decided it "we need stuff the kids like!" and they swung and missed with J Cole, Ellie Goulding, Macklemore, Halsey, etc.
I mean, is Radiohead appealing to the "college demographic?" Is Guns N' Roses? I don't necessarily think that they are, but maybe I'm mistaken. It feels like Bonnaroo could have sold a lot more tickets with a few big name EDM acts, as much as I loathe pretty much everyone who falls into that category. As it is, they loaded up the top 20 with a lot of forgettable mid-level acts that aren't really anything exciting.
Edit: Also, Pearl Jam has like 7 tour dates total this year, so I don't know that they're "touring heavily."
People still care about Radiohead's new music and everyone knows Guns N Roses' songs, so maybe those would have been better, not sure. I feel in years prior the #1 name was one that people would pay $200+ to see on their own, and was followed with more current acts (Kanye, Mumford, etc.). Even Billy Joel, who people seemed to think was the lowest point for Bonnaroo, sold out an arena in my town this year with floor tickets going for like $250.
I can just tell you that the announcement of headliners was met with a "who??" or "meh.." from pretty much everyone in my circle, which is mostly people in their early 20's. I couldn't name a single Pearl Jam or Grateful Dead song before the rumors of them playing started on here.
This exactly!!! My selling point to friends has always been the tickets cost $350. Using 2015 as an example I was like Mumford would cost you $50 and Kendrick would cost you $50 and Billy Joel would cost you $200. So MMJ Woudk cost you $50 and ANYTHING else you saw would basically be free. So for me last year I saw Alabama Shakes, Guster, Tove Lo, Bassnectar, Awolnation, Florence, Grammatik, Ben Harper, Deadmau5, Hozier, Trampled by Turtles, Run the Jewels, Gary Clark Jr, Shakey Graves, Twenty One Pilots, and Royal Blood for free! Talk about return on investment.
This year I can't say the same on my return on investment! I'm still going to see PJ and some others and to enjoy the festival but I can see why sales are down.
People still care about Radiohead's new music and everyone knows Guns N Roses' songs, so maybe those would have been better, not sure. I feel in years prior the #1 name was one that people would pay $200+ to see on their own, and was followed with more current acts (Kanye, Mumford, etc.). Even Billy Joel, who people seemed to think was the lowest point for Bonnaroo, sold out an arena in my town this year with floor tickets going for like $250.
I can just tell you that the announcement of headliners was met with a "who??" or "meh.." from pretty much everyone in my circle, which is mostly people in their early 20's. I couldn't name a single Pearl Jam or Grateful Dead song before the rumors of them playing started on here.
I mean, I don't really care, since this lineup is complete poops from top to bottom, I just thought the headliners were fine. Again, this is something that can't really ever be proven, but I think if they had a couple bigger/better names in the 4-15 range of the lineup, tickets would have moved.
This is by far the weakest portion of the lineup. I'm on board with your theory.
I mean, I don't really care, since this lineup is complete poops from top to bottom, I just thought the headliners were fine. Again, this is something that can't really ever be proven, but I think if they had a couple bigger/better names in the 4-15 range of the lineup, tickets would have moved.
This is by far the weakest portion of the lineup. I'm on board with your theory.
when I first saw the lineup I thought there were one or two lines missing under the headliners
People still care about Radiohead's new music and everyone knows Guns N Roses' songs, so maybe those would have been better, not sure. I feel in years prior the #1 name was one that people would pay $200+ to see on their own, and was followed with more current acts (Kanye, Mumford, etc.). Even Billy Joel, who people seemed to think was the lowest point for Bonnaroo, sold out an arena in my town this year with floor tickets going for like $250.
I can just tell you that the announcement of headliners was met with a "who??" or "meh.." from pretty much everyone in my circle, which is mostly people in their early 20's. I couldn't name a single Pearl Jam or Grateful Dead song before the rumors of them playing started on here.
I mean, I don't really care, since this lineup is complete poops from top to bottom, I just thought the headliners were fine. Again, this is something that can't really ever be proven, but I think if they had a couple bigger/better names in the 4-15 range of the lineup, tickets would have moved.
You are dead on with your last sentence! Add one stellar EDM name and maybe The Struts, Grimes, At the Drive In, Lindsey Sterling and ASAP and sales may have climbed
The problem is they greatly misjudged their audience. It's mostly kids now and kids these days don't really care about those headliners. They booked a lot of pop stuff for the kids, but it doesn't fit at all with the headliners.
I think this is spot on from my experience. It's like they realized their headliners appealed to an older crowd than usual and then they decided it "we need stuff the kids like!" and they swung and missed with J Cole, Ellie Goulding, Macklemore, Halsey, etc.
based on your screen name i wouldn't expect you to know a Dead song. But not knowing Pearl Jam? really i'm just baffled by this.
is this just a down year in general or do you guys really think coach, Lola, ACL, etc. had better lineups this year? To me only outside lands had a better one this year in the country (other than jazzfest obviously). First time in my 6 Roos I've actually wanted to see all 3 headliners.
[for context, I've been to every Bonnaroo since 2008. I started coming for the amazing indie rock lineups, and then got really into the Dead and jam bands in general around 2012]
Having just read the entire "Only 46k tickets" thread in the what board, it seems that consensus is that the organizers expected the Dead to draw in a lot more people than they are. A couple of thoughts I wanted to share:
* Bonnaroo has been a punchline within the jam community since somewhere around 2010 (maybe as early as the Radiohead booking in 2006, but that's debatable). Easy to understand if you consider that the lineups from 2002 - 2005 are downright pornographic for a jam head. I'm not even sure there's an equivalent for other genres of music. Maybe having a top six of Outkast, Jay-Z, Kanye, Snoop & Dre, Kendrick, and Wu-Tang from a hip-hop perspective, and then fill every line in the mid and undercard with even more awesome MC's
* The Dead toured heavily last fall, particularly on the east coast and in the midwest, where Bonnaroo draws many attendees from. They're touring heavily in the midwest in June / July, and lawn tickets to those shows are about $50, or 1/9th the cost of a GA ticket (not factoring in any travel or on-site expenses).
* a significant portion of the fanbase are retired (or at least in their late 50s / early 60s) -- many of them were able to relive the glory days last year and aren't necessarily going to hit a show this summer. Old people also tend to avoid camping festivals for obvious reasons
* while there are some other jam bands on the lineup, the jam scene is more focused on ideological purity than most. Anyone who sees Ellie Goulding and Macklemore is going to have an immediate and negative reaction
* The Dead are doing a two night stand at Alpine Valley in July, which is essentially going to function as a mini-festival. I can see two nights of the Dead there for under $100, have way cooler weather, and not be around EDM kids
* a lot of the band's absolutely massive New England fanbase is going to go to Lock'n because it's closer, cheaper, and has a much better lineup for a jam head
* Mayer's fanbase is not really crossing over into Dead & Co at all from what I can tell, which negates much of his considerable draw
TL;DR Bonnaroo organizers have minimal to no understanding of the jam scene if they thought Dead & Co was going to be a huge draw. The core four with Warren or Trey would definitely sell out the farm though
I don't think Roo overestimated the Dead's appeal, if anything they underestimated it. They seemed to make the same mistake you're making in the OP; assuming that Dead and Co would ONLY be a draw with the "jam community." The Dead have a large appeal outside of the the hair-farmer set (see, e.g. the Day of the Dead comp). The problem isn't the Dead, but the fact that if the Dead is a draw for you, the only other thing in the undercard that isn't college-pop is second-tier jam bands.
is this just a down year in general or do you guys really think coach, Lola, ACL, etc. had better lineups this year? To me only outside lands had a better one this year in the country (other than jazzfest obviously). First time in my 6 Roos I've actually wanted to see all 3 headliners.
Lola's is the best but they benefit from actually doing something with Thur night. IMO ACL's is second followed by honestly a tie between Roo and Coachella.
is this just a down year in general or do you guys really think coach, Lola, ACL, etc. had better lineups this year? To me only outside lands had a better one this year in the country (other than jazzfest obviously). First time in my 6 Roos I've actually wanted to see all 3 headliners.
Lola's is the best but they benefit from actually doing something with Thur night. IMO ACL's is second followed by honestly a tie between Roo and Coachella.
There are at least two bands at all times on Thursday that I want to see at bonnaroo. It's the most stacked day to me.
is this just a down year in general or do you guys really think coach, Lola, ACL, etc. had better lineups this year? To me only outside lands had a better one this year in the country (other than jazzfest obviously). First time in my 6 Roos I've actually wanted to see all 3 headliners.
Lola's is the best but they benefit from actually doing something with Thur night. IMO ACL's is second followed by honestly a tie between Roo and Coachella.
This is funny. I think Roo's lineup is bad because it's too much like Lolla's, not not enough like Lolla's.
I think this is spot on from my experience. It's like they realized their headliners appealed to an older crowd than usual and then they decided it "we need stuff the kids like!" and they swung and missed with J Cole, Ellie Goulding, Macklemore, Halsey, etc.
based on your screen name i wouldn't expect you to know a Dead song. But not knowing Pearl Jam? really i'm just baffled by this.
Is it that wierd? Think about the last time Pearl Jam was relevant in pop culture, then think about the fact that people starting college this year were born in like 1998.
Lola's is the best but they benefit from actually doing something with Thur night. IMO ACL's is second followed by honestly a tie between Roo and Coachella.
This is funny. I think Roo's lineup is bad because it's too much like Lolla's, not not enough like Lolla's.
I was going strictly on headliners for that. At the same time I'm an enigma of bad music choices as I like Mumford, Twenty One Pilots, will see Chainsmokers during the weekend. However I also have Leon Bridges, Chris Stapleton, Andra Day and Tame on my list to see so.... Yeah
Lola's is the best but they benefit from actually doing something with Thur night. IMO ACL's is second followed by honestly a tie between Roo and Coachella.
There are at least two bands at all times on Thursday that I want to see at bonnaroo. It's the most stacked day to me.
Trust me I am looking forward to Thursday myself. But take a look at Lola's Thur vs Roo Thur and tell me they are comparable
I don't think Roo overestimated the Dead's appeal, if anything they underestimated it. They seemed to make the same mistake you're making in the OP; assuming that Dead and Co would ONLY be a draw with the "jam community." The Dead have a large appeal outside of the the hair-farmer set (see, e.g. the Day of the Dead comp). The problem isn't the Dead, but the fact that if the Dead is a draw for you, the only other thing in the undercard that isn't college-pop is second-tier jam bands.
I can't honestly say I believe it to be true, but I want to agree that if Bonnaroo had just gone deeper with the "jam" thing they could have sold more tickets. I'm not saying make it Bonnaroo 2002 or even Lock'n, but give the jam fans some other options.
Umphreys LN (this is so obvious it's still suprising they didn't do it) Bassnectar (I know he was just there last year but his fans are rabid and would come out, and he's one of the crunchier big name EDM acts. or speaking of crunchy book Pretty Lights.) Cheese (they don't play a lot, so not the easiest booking, but put them LN Which Saturday and I think they'd draw a good crowd) Trey Band/Mike Gordon Band Mike Gordon/Leo Kottke special set (again not the easiest booking but would be great)
And hell throw some more D-tier jambands in while you are at it. There is no way bands like Papadosio and Flux Capacitor cost that much. Or some inexpensive funk/NOLA R&B acts. Soulive, Budos Band, New Mastersounds, anything with GPJ, whatever.
Again I'm hesitant to say this is the prescription for Bonnaroo's fever, because I'm basically just making a jammy lineup I'd like to see, but it seems like there would be inexpensive ways to make it happen, while still having all the other shit they booked.
There are at least two bands at all times on Thursday that I want to see at bonnaroo. It's the most stacked day to me.
Trust me I am looking forward to Thursday myself. But take a look at Lola's Thur vs Roo Thur and tell me they are comparable
Bigger names and I wish Roo would open the Which on Thursday but I'll still take the Roo Thursday over the Lolla Thursday for my taste. Hiatus kaiyote would have been sweet though for sure
