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I need someone to help me with my moral compass regarding some show justice I witnessed last night.
We were at Jason Isbell. Two rows in front of us was "that guy". He was drunk and out of control. He was screaming and cussing and shouting at random and inappropriate moments. I couldn't make out a lot of what he was saying, but i know he screamed a few times about somebody "can suck my dick." He was clearly excited to be at the show, but was being obnoxious and disturbing people in a several person radius around him. Furthermore he had two companions with him, one a girlfriend or spouse of some kind and one another male friend. His companions just seemed to think it was funny and didn't take any action to calm him down (if that was even possible).
Sitting directly in front of that guy was a middle aged gentleman and his wife. I'd say late forties, he had silver hair. At one point silver hair turns around and says something to that guy. I couldn't hear it but probably something along the lines of "please shut up". Afterwards that guy, next time he wanted to scream, got right up next to silver hair's ears and screams. Clearly antagonizing silver hair and his wife. He continued to scream in silver hair and his wife's ears for several seconds before that guy's girlfriend pulls him back and chastises him. All this happened during the opener.
It only got worse as the show went on. People around us started shouting at "that guy" as his shenanigans continued to interrupt the show. "Let Isbell sing it", "shut up", "get a belt" (that guy's pants were falling off his ass and revealing ass crack), etc. Silver hair did not address that guy further, but just faced forward for the remainder of the show. At one point silver hair got up to go get a drink or go to the bathroom, and that guy went and sat in silver hair's seat next to silver hair's wife. I have no idea why he did this, but he seemed to be amused with himself and was probably just doing it to further terrorize silver hair's wife.
End of the set, encore break, crowd is standing and cheering. Silver hair stands up, walks to the row behind him, and straight up assaults that guy. I didn't see exactly what happened because it was dark, but I am pretty sure silver hair popped that guy in the face, and that guy then lunged at silver hair. That guy hit the ground, knocking down one or two innocent bystanders in the process. Nobody was seriously hurt, except that guy's pride. Silver hair and his wife make their escape (i think he was planning this attack the entire show).
In the ensuing commotion the cops come in. I imagine most people in the crowd didn't see that it was that guy who was attacked first, and assumed that guy started the fight because of his obnoxious and intimidating behavior throughout the show. So the crowd all direct the cops to that guy. I specifically remember one girl shouting "that guy, the whole fucking show, the whole fucking show that guy" So the cops grab that guy and take him out of the theater.
The fact is that guy was the first one to be physically hit, and he was the one to be punished. At the very least least he missed a great encore (If We Were Vampires > Codeine), at worse they might have taken him to jail.
Thoughts:
-My first thought was sheer joy that "that guy" was punished. We all know that guy. We sit around on the internet talking about the numerous that guys that have ruined shows for us. Maybe at some point in our past we have even been that guy and feel shame for it. So seeing that guy get what was coming to him felt so good. Silver hair is a hero.
-My second thought was feeling guilt at having joy for seeing anybody get hit, not to mention the innocent bystanders that got knocked over as a result of the attack. There was no need for silver hair to punish that guy and risk the safety of those around him, because that guy's shitty asshole life is punishment enough.
-My third thought was no fuck that guy. He was antagonizing everyone around him the whole show, and specifically antagonizing silver hair. Show justice prevailed.
-My fourth thought was "am i just extrapolating onto this guy all the negative show experiences i've had with other that guys..."
etc. You see where it is going. I'm conflicted.
My final thought in a text message to my four friends i was at the show with, and who were sitting with me: "to be clear, i don't want anyone to get in a fight at a show. there is too much potential to hurt other people surrounding the fight. but i've been to hundreds of shows where 'that guy' is being an obnoxious asshole and suffers no consequences. it felt good to see "that guy" suffer consequences for once."
Do you have any thoughts on the above? Anyone have any similar stories of show justice, and your reaction to them?
edit: also in general i am so fucking sick of misplaced machismo. i think i'm even more sick of it because the only place i ever see it now is shows and festivals, and it is so fucking lame. go play fucking sports or crossfit or box or something, there are so many great and healthy and positive ways to get that shit out of your system.
I feel your quandary. It sounds like "that guy" was being a huge asshole, so he probably deserved what was coming to him. I'm no expert on what constitutes assault, but if she was in fact screaming and harassing people, that may be considered "assault." Not sure if Silver Hair punching him is legal grounds for responding to this verbal assault either. Moral of the story: don't scream at people or you may get punched in the face and arrested for being a huge dick.
I need someone to help me with my moral compass regarding some show justice I witnessed last night.
We were at Jason Isbell. Two rows in front of us was "that guy". He was drunk and out of control. He was screaming and cussing and shouting at random and inappropriate moments. I couldn't make out a lot of what he was saying, but i know he screamed a few times about somebody "can suck my dick." He was clearly excited to be at the show, but was being obnoxious and disturbing people in a several person radius around him. Furthermore he had two companions with him, one a girlfriend or spouse of some kind and one another male friend. His companions just seemed to think it was funny and didn't take any action to calm him down (if that was even possible).
Sitting directly in front of that guy was a middle aged gentleman and his wife. I'd say late forties, he had silver hair. At one point silver hair turns around and says something to that guy. I couldn't hear it but probably something along the lines of "please shut up". Afterwards that guy, next time he wanted to scream, got right up next to silver hair's ears and screams. Clearly antagonizing silver hair and his wife. He continued to scream in silver hair and his wife's ears for several seconds before that guy's girlfriend pulls him back and chastises him. All this happened during the opener.
It only got worse as the show went on. People around us started shouting at "that guy" as his shenanigans continued to interrupt the show. "Let Isbell sing it", "shut up", "get a belt" (that guy's pants were falling off his ass and revealing ass crack), etc. Silver hair did not address that guy further, but just faced forward for the remainder of the show. At one point silver hair got up to go get a drink or go to the bathroom, and that guy went and sat in silver hair's seat next to silver hair's wife. I have no idea why he did this, but he seemed to be amused with himself and was probably just doing it to further terrorize silver hair's wife.
End of the set, encore break, crowd is standing and cheering. Silver hair stands up, walks to the row behind him, and straight up assaults that guy. I didn't see exactly what happened because it was dark, but I am pretty sure silver hair popped that guy in the face, and that guy then lunged at silver hair. That guy hit the ground, knocking down one or two innocent bystanders in the process. Nobody was seriously hurt, except that guy's pride. Silver hair and his wife make their escape (i think he was planning this attack the entire show).
In the ensuing commotion the cops come in. I imagine most people in the crowd didn't see that it was that guy who was attacked first, and assumed that guy started the fight because of his obnoxious and intimidating behavior throughout the show. So the crowd all direct the cops to that guy. I specifically remember one girl shouting "that guy, the whole fucking show, the whole fucking show that guy" So the cops grab that guy and take him out of the theater.
The fact is that guy was the first one to be physically hit, and he was the one to be punished. At the very least least he missed a great encore (If We Were Vampires > Codeine), at worse they might have taken him to jail.
Thoughts:
-My first thought was sheer joy that "that guy" was punished. We all know that guy. We sit around on the internet talking about the numerous that guys that have ruined shows for us. Maybe at some point in our past we have even been that guy and feel shame for it. So seeing that guy get what was coming to him felt so good. Silver hair is a hero.
-My second thought was feeling guilt at having joy for seeing anybody get hit, not to mention the innocent bystanders that got knocked over as a result of the attack. There was no need for silver hair to punish that guy and risk the safety of those around him, because that guy's shitty asshole life is punishment enough.
-My third thought was no fuck that guy. He was antagonizing everyone around him the whole show, and specifically antagonizing silver hair. Show justice prevailed.
-My fourth thought was "am i just extrapolating onto this guy all the negative show experiences i've had with other that guys..."
etc. You see where it is going. I'm conflicted.
My final thought in a text message to my four friends i was at the show with, and who were sitting with me: "to be clear, i don't want anyone to get in a fight at a show. there is too much potential to hurt other people surrounding the fight. but i've been to hundreds of shows where 'that guy' is being an obnoxious asshole and suffers no consequences. it felt good to see "that guy" suffer consequences for once."
Do you have any thoughts on the above? Anyone have any similar stories of show justice, and your reaction to them?
edit: also in general i am so fucking sick of misplaced machismo. i think i'm even more sick of it because the only place i ever see it now is shows and festivals, and it is so fucking lame. go play fucking sports or crossfit or box or something, there are so many great and healthy and positive ways to get that shit out of your system.
I guess I agree with this sentiment. I get that people can be drunk and loud, but if they keep it up after being asked to chill out, and directly antagonize (screaming in your ear) that's when I'd alert security/venue staff before it escalated to the point of violence. From the sound of it, the other people in the audience around him would have welcomed that. If I came back to my seat and "that guy" had sat down next to my wife, I would be furious. That is a bit beyond the pale to me and I can't think of any reason to do that other than personal intimidation. I also know my wife is a bit feisty and she wouldn't abide that and would definitely make a scene if that 'that guy' tried that.
I need someone to help me with my moral compass regarding some show justice I witnessed last night.
We were at Jason Isbell. Two rows in front of us was "that guy". He was drunk and out of control. He was screaming and cussing and shouting at random and inappropriate moments. I couldn't make out a lot of what he was saying, but i know he screamed a few times about somebody "can suck my dick." He was clearly excited to be at the show, but was being obnoxious and disturbing people in a several person radius around him. Furthermore he had two companions with him, one a girlfriend or spouse of some kind and one another male friend. His companions just seemed to think it was funny and didn't take any action to calm him down (if that was even possible).
Sitting directly in front of that guy was a middle aged gentleman and his wife. I'd say late forties, he had silver hair. At one point silver hair turns around and says something to that guy. I couldn't hear it but probably something along the lines of "please shut up". Afterwards that guy, next time he wanted to scream, got right up next to silver hair's ears and screams. Clearly antagonizing silver hair and his wife. He continued to scream in silver hair and his wife's ears for several seconds before that guy's girlfriend pulls him back and chastises him. All this happened during the opener.
It only got worse as the show went on. People around us started shouting at "that guy" as his shenanigans continued to interrupt the show. "Let Isbell sing it", "shut up", "get a belt" (that guy's pants were falling off his ass and revealing ass crack), etc. Silver hair did not address that guy further, but just faced forward for the remainder of the show. At one point silver hair got up to go get a drink or go to the bathroom, and that guy went and sat in silver hair's seat next to silver hair's wife. I have no idea why he did this, but he seemed to be amused with himself and was probably just doing it to further terrorize silver hair's wife.
End of the set, encore break, crowd is standing and cheering. Silver hair stands up, walks to the row behind him, and straight up assaults that guy. I didn't see exactly what happened because it was dark, but I am pretty sure silver hair popped that guy in the face, and that guy then lunged at silver hair. That guy hit the ground, knocking down one or two innocent bystanders in the process. Nobody was seriously hurt, except that guy's pride. Silver hair and his wife make their escape (i think he was planning this attack the entire show).
In the ensuing commotion the cops come in. I imagine most people in the crowd didn't see that it was that guy who was attacked first, and assumed that guy started the fight because of his obnoxious and intimidating behavior throughout the show. So the crowd all direct the cops to that guy. I specifically remember one girl shouting "that guy, the whole fucking show, the whole fucking show that guy" So the cops grab that guy and take him out of the theater.
The fact is that guy was the first one to be physically hit, and he was the one to be punished. At the very least least he missed a great encore (If We Were Vampires > Codeine), at worse they might have taken him to jail.
Thoughts:
-My first thought was sheer joy that "that guy" was punished. We all know that guy. We sit around on the internet talking about the numerous that guys that have ruined shows for us. Maybe at some point in our past we have even been that guy and feel shame for it. So seeing that guy get what was coming to him felt so good. Silver hair is a hero.
-My second thought was feeling guilt at having joy for seeing anybody get hit, not to mention the innocent bystanders that got knocked over as a result of the attack. There was no need for silver hair to punish that guy and risk the safety of those around him, because that guy's shitty asshole life is punishment enough.
-My third thought was no fuck that guy. He was antagonizing everyone around him the whole show, and specifically antagonizing silver hair. Show justice prevailed.
-My fourth thought was "am i just extrapolating onto this guy all the negative show experiences i've had with other that guys..."
etc. You see where it is going. I'm conflicted.
My final thought in a text message to my four friends i was at the show with, and who were sitting with me: "to be clear, i don't want anyone to get in a fight at a show. there is too much potential to hurt other people surrounding the fight. but i've been to hundreds of shows where 'that guy' is being an obnoxious asshole and suffers no consequences. it felt good to see "that guy" suffer consequences for once."
Do you have any thoughts on the above? Anyone have any similar stories of show justice, and your reaction to them?
edit: also in general i am so fucking sick of misplaced machismo. i think i'm even more sick of it because the only place i ever see it now is shows and festivals, and it is so fucking lame. go play fucking sports or crossfit or box or something, there are so many great and healthy and positive ways to get that shit out of your system.
I feel your quandary. It sounds like "that guy" was being a huge asshole, so he probably deserved what was coming to him. I'm no expert on what constitutes assault, but if she was in fact screaming and harassing people, that may be considered "assault." Not sure if Silver Hair punching him is legal grounds for responding to this verbal assault either. Moral of the story: don't scream at people or you may get punched in the face and arrested for being a huge dick.
techincally, assault may need only be verbal. when there is contact is becomes battery. "that guy" was assaulting them; silver hair responded with battery.
I feel your quandary. It sounds like "that guy" was being a huge asshole, so he probably deserved what was coming to him. I'm no expert on what constitutes assault, but if she was in fact screaming and harassing people, that may be considered "assault." Not sure if Silver Hair punching him is legal grounds for responding to this verbal assault either. Moral of the story: don't scream at people or you may get punched in the face and arrested for being a huge dick.
techincally, assault may need only be verbal. when there is contact is becomes battery. "that guy" was assaulting them; silver hair responded with battery.
Interesting, I would love to hear a lawyer's perspective on this.
techincally, assault may need only be verbal. when there is contact is becomes battery. "that guy" was assaulting them; silver hair responded with battery.
Interesting, I would love to hear a lawyer's perspective on this.
not a lawyer, but that is my understanding of assault as well: "carried out by a threat of bodily harm coupled with an apparent, present ability to cause the harm." i think that guy's behavior could have legally constituted assault.
probably the best course of action would be to go ask security to keep an eye on that guy. i bet they would have escorted him out after they saw his behavior.
the saenger usually only has security near the front of the venue and the balcony, we were towards the back by the soundboard.
Where were the ushers/security while all this was going down?
Our purple triple knit wearing users at the Ryman would never have let this get that far. They would have been yanking him out by his ear and throwing in to the middle of Broadway.
techincally, assault may need only be verbal. when there is contact is becomes battery. "that guy" was assaulting them; silver hair responded with battery.
Interesting, I would love to hear a lawyer's perspective on this.
Assault is usually putting someone in fear of imminent harm (although definitions vary by state), so whether that guy assaulted them probably depends on whether threats were made or implied. Battery is usually an unwanted or offensive contact without consent, so yeah, silver hair probably did commit battery. It sounds like there was a delay between that guy’s possible assault and silver hair’s battery, so defenses like self-defense or defense of others probably wouldn’t fly.
Where were the ushers/security while all this was going down?
Our purple triple knit wearing users at the Ryman would never have let this get that far. They would have been yanking him out by his ear and throwing in to the middle of Broadway.
This would be my question as well. This would have ended way before this at both the theatres in Knoxville if somebody reported it.
My final thought in a text message to my four friends i was at the show with, and who were sitting with me: "to be clear, i don't want anyone to get in a fight at a show. there is too much potential to hurt other people surrounding the fight. but i've been to hundreds of shows where 'that guy' is being an obnoxious asshole and suffers no consequences. it felt good to see "that guy" suffer consequences for once."
Do you have any thoughts on the above? Anyone have any similar stories of show justice, and your reaction to them?
edit: also in general i am so fucking sick of misplaced machismo. i think i'm even more sick of it because the only place i ever see it now is shows and festivals, and it is so fucking lame. go play fucking sports or crossfit or box or something, there are so many great and healthy and positive ways to get that shit out of your system.
Good for silver hair. Everyone should have kicked that guy while he was down. Fuck that guy.
Hard disagree. Anyone could've gotten a security at any point. "Being obnoxious" is not an excuse to start a fight.
I feel no sympathy for the guy that got popped and he 100% should have been ejected from the show long before it got to that point. But Silver Hair was not in the right either.
Good for silver hair. Everyone should have kicked that guy while he was down. Fuck that guy.
Hard disagree. Anyone could've gotten a security at any point. "Being obnoxious" is not an excuse to start a fight.
I feel no sympathy for the guy that got popped and he 100% should have been ejected from the show long before it got to that point. But Silver Hair was not in the right either.
I wonder if something happened there at the end of the show that sent silver hair over the edge. It's one thing if he had planned to punch the guy all show and another if the guy went one step too far since the show was basically over.
Hard disagree. Anyone could've gotten a security at any point. "Being obnoxious" is not an excuse to start a fight.
I feel no sympathy for the guy that got popped and he 100% should have been ejected from the show long before it got to that point. But Silver Hair was not in the right either.
I wonder if something happened there at the end of the show that sent silver hair over the edge. It's one thing if he had planned to punch the guy all show and another if the guy went one step too far since the show was basically over.
It doesn't matter either way. If he wasn't defending himself there's better ways to handle it.
If you're just trying to understand the incident then that certainly seems like a reasonable conclusion.
I wonder if something happened there at the end of the show that sent silver hair over the edge. It's one thing if he had planned to punch the guy all show and another if the guy went one step too far since the show was basically over.
It doesn't matter either way. If he wasn't defending himself there's better ways to handle it.
If you're just trying to understand the incident then that certainly seems like a reasonable conclusion.
I'm not one to get in fights at all and would definitely try to find a way out of the situation that didn't involve punching people. That being said, if the guy said he was going to do something to silver hair and/or his companion, given his previous boundary breaking by moving in to the silver hair's seat, it's pretty easy to see a path to him getting punched in the mouth. For me, that would make it "I wouldn't have done it that way, but I understand" thing.
It doesn't matter either way. If he wasn't defending himself there's better ways to handle it.
If you're just trying to understand the incident then that certainly seems like a reasonable conclusion.
I'm not one to get in fights at all and would definitely try to find a way out of the situation that didn't involve punching people. That being said, if the guy said he was going to do something to silver hair and/or his companion, given his previous boundary breaking by moving in to the silver hair's seat, it's pretty easy to see a path to him getting punched in the mouth. For me, that would make it "I wouldn't have done it that way, but I understand" thing.
Of course, yea, I totally understand the decision making process here. It should've been dealt with WAY earlier in a much more peaceful manner. And, again, I have no sympathy for the drunkard; 'talk shit get hit' and so on and so forth.
I just have a very hard line, "No one should punch each other," rule and I like to stick to it.
Where were the ushers/security while all this was going down?
Our purple triple knit wearing users at the Ryman would never have let this get that far. They would have been yanking him out by his ear and throwing in to the middle of Broadway.
This is something I never noticed about the Saenger until last night. Security is only focused on the front of the theatre. They are typically pretty good about shutting people down who are being disruptive, since the Saenger is a nice and chill type of theatre. However we were in the back of the theatre and there was no security nearby.
The venue just sent me a survey this morning, and I described the incident and suggested they have security towards the back of the floor.
At no point during the show did it occur to me to go get security. I guess I'm just used to accepting there will be assholes at shows. After last night I'm going to be a bit more assertive about snitching, especially when I'm not a direct target of the abuse.
man i hate to admit it but i had no idea who James McMurtry was before last night. didn't recognize any of the songs, but they were well played and well received by the crowd. isbell sung his praises as a songwriter during the show.
I'm not one to get in fights at all and would definitely try to find a way out of the situation that didn't involve punching people. That being said, if the guy said he was going to do something to silver hair and/or his companion, given his previous boundary breaking by moving in to the silver hair's seat, it's pretty easy to see a path to him getting punched in the mouth. For me, that would make it "I wouldn't have done it that way, but I understand" thing.
Of course, yea, I totally understand the decision making process here. It should've been dealt with WAY earlier in a much more peaceful manner. And, again, I have no sympathy for the drunkard; 'talk shit get hit' and so on and so forth.
I just have a very hard line, "No one should punch each other," rule and I like to stick to it.
Yeah, it's a dick move if silver hair sat there plotting to punch the guy for most of the show when he could have got an usher/security.
Of course, yea, I totally understand the decision making process here. It should've been dealt with WAY earlier in a much more peaceful manner. And, again, I have no sympathy for the drunkard; 'talk shit get hit' and so on and so forth.
I just have a very hard line, "No one should punch each other," rule and I like to stick to it.
Yeah, it's a dick move if silver hair sat there plotting to punch the guy for most of the show when he could have got an usher/security.
yeah, and clearly i'm making a lot of assumptions about the situation. i don't have all the facts.
and i appreciate everyone's input. i think the consensus is it's best to let security handle situations like this.
When I saw Bon Iver last month, there was some drunk girl sitting next to me being talkative and obnoxious. I should have gotten security, but I didn't wanna be the one that caused a bigger scene. And I was hoping she was gonna pass out.
I think you still see their posts if someone quotes them. I don't know about the other parts. Just dislike everything they post. It's funner that way.
I forgot there’s a dislike button now. I’m always on mobile when I inforoo these days...
I'm not on that much anymore, but I just realized like twenty minutes ago that it was there when I accidentally used it. "Was that always there?!" Question answered.
Welcome back Bonz, but I do not find it strange that your presence being requested in the Orgy thread and then you showing up, like it was the quacking Bonzai Bat Signal.
I think you still see their posts if someone quotes them. I don't know about the other parts. Just dislike everything they post. It's funner that way.
I forgot there’s a dislike button now. I’m always on mobile when I inforoo these days...
If you unfollow someone, you will still see their post if someone else quotes it. As Dave Maynar stated it isn't worth it to block them. I have only blocked one person and I ended up unblocking them because EVERYONE constantly quoted them. I ended up unblocking and just ignoring them since they were horrible. Luckily they got banned.
Post by wannaberoo'ing on Jan 10, 2018 13:16:52 GMT -5
Dislike button is back! How exciting. Also, this development made me feel old since I realized a fair amount of posters here probably don't know the long wait for its return and what we had to endure without this feature.