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Not sure if this is the right place, but I have some ideas and want to get this ball rolling, now. We have lost another family member this year, Yoderoo may you RIP! and he was the second person this year. For the past 3 years I have been spending a week in the Desert with 50K+ other people and nobody dies from the weather conditions, the heat and there are no 'water stations', you bring your own. So why the difference? Why are we losing lives at one festival, where there are facilities set up to aid you help you to stay hydrated and not losing lives at another festival, where it is your responsibility to keep yourself hydrated. EDUCATION!!! Yes, education. and this is what I want to do. I quickly searched on the Bonnaroo website and found this advice on 'Keeping Hydrated",
"Keeping hydrated and drinking plenty of water throughout the weekend is crucial. Tennessee is hot in the summertime, and you will undoubtedly be moving around to see music, activities and more, so you must drink plenty of water to keep your body happy!
Take advantage of the potable water stations, and bring items such as CamelBaks and water bottles to easily transport drinking water around."
I looked in the pamphlet handed out and in a small section, under Health Tips, it reads,
"Be sure to drink plenty of water and keep your body fully hydrated. Utilize misting tents located throughout the grounds to seek relief from the heat as soon as you begin to feel it's effects. Protect yourself by using a high SPF sunscreen... and have your ticks removed at the medical tent."
And here is the same information from another festival
"It takes nearly everyone a day or so to adjust to the desert climate. Don't be surprised if you spend your first day feeling a bit queasy and cranky. Begin drinking more water as you approach the desert. To stay healthy and enjoy the week, drink water all the time whether you think you need it or not. Drinking up to one gallon of water per person per day is the rule of thumb.
Remember to eat proper salty foods to prevent electrolyte imbalance. Users of alcohol, caffeine or other NO NO WORD!!! are particularly at risk for dehydration, and should pay careful attention to their water intake. Dehydration can cause headaches, stomach cramps, abdominal pains, constipation, or flu-like symptoms. It exacerbates both heat-related and cold-related conditions (i.e. heat exhaustion and hypothermia), and makes it difficult for the body to mend itself. If someone you know complains of these symptoms, or shows signs of either severe overheating or (worse) a case of chills under the mid-day sun, get them to shade immediately and seek prompt medical help."
Now is it Bonnaroo's responsibility to keep you hydrated, no it is not, that is your responsibility. It is Bonnaroo's responsibility to supply you with the knowledge to survive in the Tennessee summer heat? Honest, I did not believe so, but with all the money they are making off us I think they would want to step up and do everything they could to educate us and keep us safe, their responsibility or not.
My ideas:
Emails-I got a lot of e-mails from Bonnaroo, but never got one dedicated to safety at Roo, maybe I did, but I do not remember.
Website-a bigger discussion about the Tennessee summer heat and how it effects the body and leads to dehydration and causes electrolyte imbalances
Pamphlets-put a page in the handout describing the S/S of dehydration, include a color chart:
clear-your good, drink some water
light yellow-still good, drink some more water
dark yellow-drink more Water NOW
tea colored-not good, drink lots of water, seek medical attention
The pee color is useful except that it's pretty near impossible to see your pee in a portapotty in the daylight let alone in a dark one, when it's mixed with blue cleaning fluid, or when you're peeing against a wall in the dark.
Post by twistedlittlepuppy on Jun 14, 2011 14:27:43 GMT -5
RIP to Yoderoo and Beth from Philly. I started lurking on this board months before signing up and nearly every thread I read in That Tent had valuable info provided by Yoderoo. It's truly sad that he's gone now.
It was my first Roo also and I can think of some improvements that can be made. YES, people need to know how to properly hydrate. It's not just a matter of drinking plenty of fluids (and of course you'll have people who think beer is hydrating). I grew up in Boston and have known tons of people who ran the Boston Marathon and would tell people new the marathon the same thing: water is NOT enough. in fact, too much water is hazardous. your body needs salt too. Gatorade and the like are, IMO, disgusting as heck, but I made sure to bring several bottles of it with me, along w/ a few packets to dissolve in water.
There needs to be more water and shade options in the campgrounds themselves! I don't know exactly what camp I was in, it was off of Bushy Rd, IIRC, down that dirt road that lead off from it. we could have made a direct line from our camp to Pod 10, but due to the road and fences, we had to walk all the way down to the end of the road, cross over, pass various vendors (who, BTW, went out of their way to advertise that they sell lemonade and beer, but not water or sport drinks w/ electrolytes...), then make our way to the Pod 10 sinks. obviously, I can understand he safety issues of having people more or less jaywalk across the road at random spots, but I honestly don't recall seeing a pod w/ water on the right side of the road towards the trees. And walking from our camp to Centeroo, I could only find a single misting tent and one pod w/ water sinks, and it's not as if I went down some random route; I was following the massive crowds down 3rd (st? ave? can't remember). simply putting in some water stations on that path that ran parallel to the road (the one they were directing walkers down to keep them off the road) would have been helpful
I'm not sure about where everyone else lives, but every concert, sporting event, festival, anything that I have ever been to here in Atlanta will only let us in if our drinks are factory sealed. It didn't suprise me that we had to empty them out...thats why we just loaded our back packs with water straight from the cooler. It is very sad these two people died...and obviously, there are some things about Bonnaroo contributing to their deaths (ie they more than likely wouldnt have died this weekend had they not been there). However, everyone knows what they are getting into when they purchase their ticket. If they don't, that is irresponsible on their part. My boyfriend and I brought in five bottles of water each, and two gatorades each, and we were fine. We sat in the shade when the sun was too much, and if we did run out of water, we bought another. I don't feel like there needed to be more shade at the campsites, because almost everyone brought their own shade. So many people are so used to having everything done for them, things given to them, other people taking care of them, that they are not prepared for something like this. I'm not saying that these deaths were a result of that, or that it was their fault. But I don't think it is fair to blame Bonnaroo. People die of hyperthermia when they go out to parks and other events for a day...It's all about TAKING CARE OF YOURSELF.
RIP Yoderoo, and the woman who lost her life this weekend. My prayers are with their families and friends.
Posting to show support for anyone that needs it. If you are a inforooster, family member, friend, anything at all remotely affected by this tragedy.....my thoughts are with you.
- IMO this thread should turn to more of a support for lives impacted then a back and forth over who's fault this is.
As this is very sad I do not think you can blame the promoters on the deaths. Between the effort of drinking water stations, shade / misting tents, information on their website and medical staff on hand. Why do we need to always put the blame on someone?
I would assume that at least one or even two people die out of 80-90K within four days. You just don't hear about it because they are not collectively together. Again very sad but the media also thrives on this kind of happenings.
With the heat, extremely long days, alcohol it's simply amazing there there are not even more every year.
I don't blame Bonnaroo, but some will. All it takes to destroy this festival permanently is for a congressman or media personality to build a media campaign around the notion that Bonnaroo is a giant lawless druq fest where people are dropping like flies. They will say x pounds of narcotics are confiscated by police along the highways leading to bonnaroo. They will say many of these narcotics are stimulants that contribute heavily to dehydration. They will say the police are absolutely overwhelmed by the sheer volume of these substances entering their state and that once inside the gates, all law enforcement disapears. They will then interview Bonnaroo patrons who complain about long lines to get water, water being confiscated, absolutely no shade in the campground and little to no shade at two of the stages. The response to this kind of publicity would have to be drastic on Bonnaroo's part. It would ruin the festival. So while Bonnaroo cannot be held accountable for any particular death, it is in their best interest to greatly reduce dangerous conditions that will eventually inevitably lead to the kind of media campaign I'm referring to. Get more shade for the Which and What stages. Get more gDamn water stations! Break up the campgrounds with trees that can act as Pod oases. In the coming years and decades, we should expect hotter Bonnaroos than ever. But that's only if it survives that long. I certainly hope so.
I do not blame Bonnaroo. Never did. they provide water stations and it is our responsibility to take care of ourselves. (although I completely disagree with having to empty my camelbak, stupid that is) I do think it is in the best interest of Bonnaroo to make some changes and educate and aid the masses from the heat and dehydration. Unfortunately, it takes a loss or losses of life for these changes to happen. I want to open this discussion in a civil and professional manner. This thread is not the best place for this discussion, but it is a place to start it.
The security dumping your water out if it's an open container isn't anything new. If you bring food in make sure it's granola bars or something that comes sealed. I feel like if you're new to Bonnaroo, all it takes is some basic research to prepare yourself.
I ran into one guy this year that asked me to dump 3 bottles of water. I said ok and walked down to the other entrance and walked right in, no problems. After that, I figured out the best thing to do. Invest about 30 seconds in scoping out the people that are doing quick bag searches and go to them.
Being in the shade and having a steady supply of water is just a start......I camped in bfe last year and only used my tent to change clothes....Slept in my vehicle...By Sunday morning, I was ready to get out of there....This festival needs to be open to change. Stop acting like its perfect because it is not. More than 90% of the people at the festival did not die but I'm sure most were stressed and uncomfortable. Sure the vendors are going to make more money because the heat makes your body need more food and fluids...but Bonnaroo should seriously consider changing the festival dates to a cooler month. Just try it one year....Let's see how it goes.
Post by kikosanchez on Jun 14, 2011 15:15:36 GMT -5
I heard over some guy's radio about a car on fire in the campsite. And just now read of the car on fire on the road. Are people trying to cook meth in their cars or what???
Post by plasticpepper on Jun 14, 2011 15:18:05 GMT -5
Oh, no. So saddened by this. I read an article on my phone on the ride home, saw the last name, and was really hoping it wasn't yoderoo.
I hesitate to comment at all, so let me try to do this (hopefully) without sparking any more of the sort of comments we really don't need here. When this happens...speaking generally, it is neither Bonnaroo's fault nor is it the fault of the individuals. It's a tragic accident. And it's wholly inappropriate for anyone here to be passing judgment on anyone for these types of accidents. And speaking of any specific situation, we do not know any of the details, so it's even MORE inappropriate to pass judgment.
Yes, there are things that SP/ACE could do that might help prevent these things. And yes, that means there are things WE can do, because there are a lot of us and we proved last year that we can make things happen. So by all means, let's do what we can. But just because there are things that could be done that might help, that doesn't mean it's correct or fair to assign any blame to anyone. And it's sure as hell not appropriate.
Anyway. If anyone is willing and able to take charge of us Inforoosters and get us organized, please let us know what we can do - what charity we should be making donations to in Chris's name, how we can offer our condolences to his family, anything.
RIP Chris and Beth. Chris, we're really gonna miss you around here. Thanks for being such a great Inforooster. Beth, I don't think we knew you, but I'm sure we were missing out by not knowing you. My thoughts are with both of your families and friends.
I do not blame Bonnaroo. Never did. they provide water stations and it is our responsibility to take care of ourselves. (although I completely disagree with having to empty my camelbak, stupid that is) I do think it is in the best interest of Bonnaroo to make some changes and educate and aid the masses from the heat and dehydration. Unfortunately, it takes a loss or losses of life for these changes to happen. I want to open this discussion in a civil and professional manner. This thread is not the best place for this discussion, but it is a place to start it.
Another place to start is to kick AXIS security to the curb and choose a new company. The actual staff isn't that bad but they are uneducated as far as the logistics of the festival goes and are endlessly given conflicting information from their supervisiors. I don't like the fact that their shirts say SAFETY on them either. It's false advertisement.
Post by bamadancer on Jun 14, 2011 15:19:21 GMT -5
I agree with Scrog. I'm not "blaming" Bonnaroo per se, but I think this is an important issue that should be on the minds of everyone in the festival community. And there are things that Bonnaroo could do better. It shouldn't take someone dying to bring that to our attention.
And I disagree with the whole "whenever you have that many people in one place someone is bound to die"...look at Burning Man. Nobody dies there (besides one person who committed suicide in 2007).
Anyway, I'll leave this thread to be what it is. But I think it would be a great idea to start an education thread like Scrog suggested.
we cant forget about that kid lying up in the hospital in tennessee with a broken neck from being run over by a golf cart at 3am on sat night while sleeping.
The discussion is important. I prepared before going to Roo for my first time 3 years ago by reading all the message boards and still continue to get great advice every year since. I think Roo can do more to educate clearly it's not about who's fault but what can be done to prevent this from happening again. Hydrate is not enough. You don't even feel thirsty you just started feeling dizzy and disoriented. I had to make my way out of shows because I knew I had run out of water. I wasn't about to chance it to be up close.
RIP to the two who passed.
"In the night of death, hope sees a star, and listening love can hear the rustle of a wing."~Robert Ingersoll
we cant forget about that kid lying up in the hospital in tennessee with a broken neck from being run over by a golf cart at 3am on sat night while sleeping.
we cant forget about that kid lying up in the hospital in tennessee with a broken neck from being run over by a golf cart at 3am on sat night while sleeping.
lets keep him in our thoughts as well!
Wait, what happened?
As best I can tell, the description is pretty apt.
The thing is, I met him at the airport in ATL, so I know he's doing RELATIVELY well. Had a pretty wild neck brace on, though. Quickly found out he was another Inforooster...
I do not blame Bonnaroo. Never did. they provide water stations and it is our responsibility to take care of ourselves. (although I completely disagree with having to empty my camelbak, stupid that is) I do think it is in the best interest of Bonnaroo to make some changes and educate and aid the masses from the heat and dehydration. Unfortunately, it takes a loss or losses of life for these changes to happen. I want to open this discussion in a civil and professional manner. This thread is not the best place for this discussion, but it is a place to start it.
^This. Drink more water, be mindful of the heat is not enough. Even though I am well aware of the need to change diet and drinking habits to survive several days in the hot sun funkingroovin, I forgot to send the kids with electrolyte drinks and some other very easy foods to help fend off heat exhaustion/heatstroke. This board would be a great place for an extensive guide like the Leo's Roo Survival Guide & Lucid's Backpack List on how to prep beforehand and stay properly hydrated and balanced even while slamming beers and corn. A little lobbying could get this onto the official Bonnaroo site. *goes off home to do research*
i don't care what their rules are they should never dump out someone's water. i think it's just criminal to do that at a fest like this where is heat is so bad and you're in wide open spaces with no shade. check the water bottles, check the camelbacks and stuff and if you can clearly tell it is water, let the people go. we had unopened containers dumped out before also. that is just wrong. it's greed. they do that because they want you to buy everything inside the fest. and yes this happens at every concert, i know. but this should be happening in conditions like roo. who knows if any of this even contributes to any of the deaths, but i know it sure would make things more comfortable for a lot of people if these things were changed.
Being in the shade and having a steady supply of water is just a start......I camped in bfe last year and only used my tent to change clothes....Slept in my vehicle...By Sunday morning, I was ready to get out of there....This festival needs to be open to change. Stop acting like its perfect because it is not. More than 90% of the people at the festival did not die but I'm sure most were stressed and uncomfortable. Sure the vendors are going to make more money because the heat makes your body need more food and fluids...but Bonnaroo should seriously consider changing the festival dates to a cooler month. Just try it one year....Let's see how it goes.
What month do you suggest ? Maybe one where 60+% of the demographic is in school ? Oh, that is not a good idea.
"More then 90% of the people did not die" Better do your math again...
So rough numbers 80,000 attendees, 10,000+ workers, volunteers, vendors, police, security and two deaths is 0.00002%