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Hamels was a better pitcher in '08 and '09 but not '10. Hamels xFIP was still better last year. Oswalt just got a little bit lucky last year according to batted ball data. Oswalt's not the same pitcher he was from about 02-07.
No question that Hamels was the better pitcher in 2008. Ultimately, I think they're pretty comparable pitchers, but it would not surprise me in the least if Hamels has a better year this year than Oswalt, since he's arguably done it twice before. Granted, Oswalt has clearly been the better pitcher of the two the last two years, but I don't really think Hamels has regressed necessarily.
Which pitcher would you rather have? The 33 year old coming off a strange resurgence or 27 year old that has been consistent and has slightly improved. I don't buy a 33 year old getting better in the post-steroid era. Also I've hated Oswalt forever, so I'm biased.
Oswalt was great for a long time and people still think he's an elite pitcher. He won't be an elite pitcher. Hamels was victimized by poor luck and poor run support in 09, so people think he had a down year. I hate Oswalt. Hamels will be better in 11 and later.
That's basically what I was trying to say.
Last Edit: Dec 14, 2010 16:58:24 GMT -5 by Guest - Back to Top
Totally agree. Hamels has the potential to be a Cy Young winner one day. His circle change is absolutely nasty. People just freaked out over Oswalt because he did a 180 when he went to Philly midway through the season. I had him on my Fantasy team, and I was about to drop him until he went to Philly.
Post by ziggyandthemonkeys on Dec 14, 2010 17:21:12 GMT -5
I think they will have all 4 guys starting in the playoffs, but if they did a 3 man rotation for some reason I would not be surprised to see Hamels out there over Oswalt by the postseason next year.
He's like you made an über troll by taking the worst parts of me (the utter disregard for other people's opinions), Phi (cluttering up threads with memes and adding nothing to a discussion) and Jess (an apparent belief that everyone else is the problem and/or arrogance without self awareness).
Also, I have no idea where you get the idea that Cliff Lee is injury-prone: since 2004, he's started at least 31 games every year (not counting playoffs) except for 2010 (28 games) and 2007 (16 games, but he spent a good chunk of that year in the minors when he had weird control problems).
Just to hit on a few.....
--Off season foot surger for bone spur that had broken loose in early 2010
--Placed on DL for 15 days 2010 for pre-season abd strain. Said abd strain was used as his excuse for control issues at his suspension hearing in April. Note: he had drilled a dude in the back during a simulated game earlier in spring training, so he had been having control issues anyways.
--Back injury in Sept 2010.
--His 2007 demotion to Buffalo was not only due to "weird control problems" but also multiple injuries. If CLEVELAND is sending you to the minors, then you are really having some problems.
Please note, I also said LESS injury prone. Since we are clearly going to travel down the road of semantics here, I shall rephrase as less history of significant injuries, although the above may be enough to support my injury prone statement. Better?
And I see your game starting stats and raise you the fact that just because I'm sick, doesn't mean I call off work everytime. But the older I get, the harder it is to bounce back as easily.
Also add "History of control issues" to my list, as well as "closet Royal fan due to being a Kansas girl, so Greinke would be MY preferred acquisition".
Oh the Yankees wanted him, no denying that at all. However, as stated, I would rather they pick up Greinke.
Please and Thank you.
And I do agree with you Nodepression. I fear he would struggle in NY. However, it is looking bleak that we will sign him anyways.
--His 2007 demotion to Buffalo was not only due to "weird control problems" but also multiple injuries. If CLEVELAND is sending you to the minors, then you are really having some problems.
While this is normally true, 2007 was the year they almost went to the World Series but lost to Boston.
These are my two go to theme dinners for these teams during division series games (What can I say, I'm a girl, I have to do something to jazz up the games at my house. And no one has ever complained.)
Post by ziggyandthemonkeys on Dec 15, 2010 9:18:52 GMT -5
Similar to what I was thinking, the Yankees inked Mark Prior. He must be healthier at this point than Webb. I still see them making a big trade during the season, and definitely not for Greinke.
Similar to what I was thinking, the Yankees inked Mark Prior. He must be healthier at this point than Webb. I still see them making a big trade during the season, and definitely not for Greinke.
I wouldn't be surprised at all to see them make a move for Carlos Zambrano.
I'm going to greatly enjoy drinking in the Yankees' failure when they trade a couple valuable young prospects for Big Z, only to realize that he is in no way temperamentally suited to pitch on NY. He's too sensitive and tempered; he'd be like the Cryin' Ryan Leaf of MLB pitchers if he pitched in NY.
Also, no chance in hell the Yankees get Greinke this year. They don't have the needed pieces; the Royals aren't just going to GIVE him away, at least not until a year before he hits free agency.
Quacking Dusty Baker, man. He ruined Prior and Wood, and now the Yankees are giving them sympathy contracts. Wood actually ended up doing really well with the Yankees, though.
Post by ziggyandthemonkeys on Dec 15, 2010 12:55:01 GMT -5
Big Z is who I was thinking as well, and is a name being tossed around obviously. I think its 50/50 whether he could hold up to the NY media and pressure cooker. He's not like Greinke in that he has severe anxiety issues, he just seems to be an all around crazy guy. Every now and then those guys get it together when they are sent to a good team with some stability, ala Ron Artest or Josh Hamilton. I think Zambrano could be in a good situation to succeed and be focused baring any injuries if he went to NY. It would also be the same pitching coach for him, which I am not sure is a good or bad thing.
Zambrano? Not a single team would sign him to the contract he has right now. No one will trade for him. He would get killed as a part of the Yanks and would have at least a 5+ ERA.
I can't wait for Dusty Baker to ruin all the Reds' young arms. Dusty is my favorite manager <3 He's going to destroy to Central division rivals
Big Z is who I was thinking as well, and is a name being tossed around obviously. I think its 50/50 whether he could hold up to the NY media and pressure cooker. He's not like Greinke in that he has severe anxiety issues, he just seems to be an all around crazy guy. Every now and then those guys get it together when they are sent to a good team with some stability, ala Ron Artest or Josh Hamilton. I think Zambrano could be in a good situation to succeed and be focused baring any injuries if he went to NY. It would also be the same pitching coach for him, which I am not sure is a good or bad thing.
Josh Hamilton is in no way, shape, or form an accurate comparison. He cleaned up WELL before joining the Rangers, and started playing really, really well for the Reds before being traded to the Rangers. And the Rangers weren't really a good team before he got there. And Ron Artest STILL has yet to pick up the triangle offense. Not that I regret us losing Ariza and signing him; he brings an added element of toughness to the Lakers. I do see your point, though. Randy Moss is a better example to me, once he joined the Pats a few years back, except with him it was more an issue of laziness than craziness. I guess MAYBE I could see Big Z doing well in NY, but I think it's exponentially more likely that he has a total meltdown there.
Post by Chareth Cutestory on Dec 15, 2010 14:32:37 GMT -5
Also, apparently Zambrano and the Yankees' pitching coach are tight, so that's something. I've heard this rumor for a while now, I'd be surprised if it didn't come true.
Negative prospects? This is his contract: 10:$17.875M, 11:$17.875M, 12:$18M, 13:$19.25M vesting player option. Cashman should be fired the minute he made any trade for Zambrano. Seriously what team would give Zambrano that contract right now? Now who's going to give up players for that trainwreck?
(What can I say, I'm a girl, I have to do something to jazz up the games at my house. And no one has ever complained.)