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Quick question for the group: what candidate supports abortion, supports gay rights, wants to end the current ongoing wars, supports gun ownership, and also wants to end the war on drugs? Oh, and hopefully, they aren't involved in any fundamentalist conservative religious movements. Oh, and hopefully they are fabulously wealthy and can't be bought. Or not wealthy with boatloads of integrity.
Or at least, who comes closest? My guess is Ron Paul... Not sure how Obama or Hillary feel.
Hillary always has her nose in anti-videogame and other over-the-top "think of the children" bills...so that turns me off from her.
^ I hate to say it, but if she was hotter she'd be getting a ton more votes...
If hilldog gets the nom, it really depends on who the repubs nominate on who I vote for, and it'll probably end up being a 3rd party candidate. She just seems so fake to me.
^ I hate to say it, but if she was hotter she'd be getting a ton more votes...
If hilldog gets the nom, it really depends on who the repubs nominate on who I vote for, and it'll probably end up being a 3rd party candidate. She just seems so fake to me.
I have plenty of issues with her and they are not necessarily political
at this point - there is not one "good man" it goes back to the "lesser of two evils" and even then - I am not sure that we are gonna like our choices all that much
There are answers to all of your collective lamenting, yet you refuse to look for them.
Like shooting sheep in a barrel.....
elaborate? come on - I think everyone knows - I have always avoided the political posts - mainly because it takes way too much thinking and I think enough in my job - but also - because everyone has their own opinions about how things should be done, how things should have been done and how things will be done
That's a question better answered by Fox, CNN, ABC,NBC, and CBS !!
Anyone with enough interest to read and/or post in this thread ought to know how to look up voting records and read between the lines during campaign season.
Facts are, only one Democratic candidate has his/her mouth in line with his/her voting record. The rest are perpetrating a big bamboozle full of shenaniganz.
Most people just wanna act like there are NO answers so they hold NO accountability ala "don't look at me, I didn't vote for him/her. Either that or act like the one who represents most of their values(as underlined by the political philosophy test that circulated around here several months back) is unelectable. Virtually, what you are telling said candidate is that you don't have the ballz to support his support for what you believe.
Unless you really want gays to be excluded from healthcare and this war to continue. Or maybe you believe Hillary is NOT in bed with the healthcare industry. More centrism gives us less choice. But when a candidate is centrist, he/she stands to get $ from the NRA AND the ACLU, all the while, standing for nothing.
As far as MY answer to how you get more than one sheep in a barrel-simple.
Puree, water down, and PLACATE with opiates(TV, BOOZE, RELIGION, CORN).
Last Edit: Dec 18, 2007 10:43:07 GMT -5 by snoochie2 - Back to Top
snoochie - you're like a slightly angry troo. even your dog looks a little tougher
placate with corn - oh man, i have to agree in part with that one. I mean, have enough and i really do not care what the hell is going on. if anything, thats one of the major selling points of corn for me. that, and video games are WAY more fun...
the other stuff, i agree with completely. my mother in law was over for the weeked, and i invited my parents over as well. we had a turkey - it was nice. however, talk about different worlds. the MIL is completely cought up in the latest hollywood gossip - i think to a point where she has lost some of her own identity. she hasnt moved past her divorce of at least 15 years ago - perhaps because it was too painful to deal with, so she started paying attention to pop culture and drinking. then, in stark contrast, is my parents - who have no idea what or who the latest celebrities/tvshows/movies/etc are. however, i think they lead a life more closely grounded in reality.
what does that mean, i dont know. just an observation i wanted to share.
what i really hate about the whole process is that in the end it comes down to TWO choices for President. only 2. out of millions of people only 2 have a realistic chance. thats just not right.
Keep your eye out for Michael Bloomberg then - he's probably going to do a Perot-esque independent campaign. I haven't really done any research to see where he stands on issues, but I do know that with $10 bil+ net worth he shouldn't have to bow to special interest groups to get campaign funding.
I hear ya loud and clear. I am sorry that my passion comes off as anger. I have made an effort over time, to whittle my words into effective SHARP tools. Now my goal is to realize that sharp doesn't always mean useful. I have a definite duality when it comes to wordiness crossed with bumperstickerisms.
I believe it was YOU, Idioteque who best summed up my catch22 more than a year ago when you chimed in to one of these "conversations" to say, "I believe angry guy has a point". My wife and I still laugh over the accuracy, irony, and clarity of your point.
I have also felt somewhat kindred with Troo. We are very similar in many ways. Passionate activist types who like to shed some light and hold folks accountable. He is a bit kinder and gentler about it. My goal is to age as sweetly as I can, remembering always the old folks who have seen so much more than I, yet interpolate it into a kind knowing smile. That's a hard but noble road these days.
Just so all are aware. It is not my intent at all, to come off as superior and self righteous. It is just often a difficult balance to be as passionate and accountable as I try to be, while watching so many halfheartedly flounder, then complain. It is truly my intent to inspire a thought that might take us all higher...and then to listen intently for that thought to percolate out to the surface.
As I have noted, you, Idioteque, have inspired that type of thought in me. And I am thankful. Even though I often come off as bitter. I'll let that bitter drive my ambition to become better.
And as far as the opiates go.... I think we all need to steep ourselves in a healthy dose of denial from time to time. We just can't live there. Though this world gives us so many reasons to !!
Snoocie - you know we love you and you don't come off as superior or self-righteous to me at all - you just have your own opinion and are not afraid to voice it - which can be a good thing most of the time!
Idioteque: You're right about snooch's dog. I think my dog has a crush on snooch's dog.
And BTW, No one has come out in support of ending the war on drugs except Ron Paul and Mike Gravel, and no one will. It's a sure way to lose the election (though it is the only sensible way to handle drugs). People are just too brainwashed on the issue.
As far as politics, I've already stated that I like Ron Paul (and the libertarian) stand individual freedom (including ending the war on drugs) but his(their) free reign corporate capitalism is dangerous (see previous post).
If I believed Hillary would vote what she believes, I could support her but it has become apparent that experience has taught her that you have to go along with the establishment (ie not saying she'll pull out of Iraq and voting Iran as terrorists which allows Bush to attack) to get elected. Obama is still finding his way. Edwards is the only one I feel has stood up for the issues that affect the average man. But I'll not get on that soap box again.
My most viable dream ticket would be Edwards/Obama. I think they've win in a landslide.
PS. And snooch, I like any opinion as long as it is informed. Your passion is just a sign of your genuine concern. Keep it up.
Last Edit: Dec 18, 2007 11:39:02 GMT -5 by troo - Back to Top
what i really hate about the whole process is that in the end it comes down to TWO choices for President. only 2. out of millions of people only 2 have a realistic chance. thats just not right.
Keep your eye out for Michael Bloomberg then - he's probably going to do a Perot-esque independent campaign. I haven't really done any research to see where he stands on issues, but I do know that with $10 bil+ net worth he shouldn't have to bow to special interest groups to get campaign funding.
No, but he'll have to bow to all the special interest groups if and when he gets to Washington, DC. There isn't a candidate out there who will be able to avoid the machine once they make it to the White House.
That's my GIRL Josie you're talking about there Gretel/Troo.
So unless you want them both excluded from healthcare coverage(if'n they were humanoids), you'd better lose the Edwards slant and pick up on Denny. He's anticorporate enough to risk his place in the House by actually voting against the unlawful invasion of Iraq. ;D ;D ;D
*i like coconuts, you can break them open they smell like ladies lyin in the sun** *Hell I don't even know where I am** *for now I must sit here and ponder the yonder: The herbivores did well cause their food didn't never run** *We listen, if it feels good We shake** *You made a big impression for a girl of your size, Now I can't get by without you and your big brown eyes.**
Keep your eye out for Michael Bloomberg then - he's probably going to do a Perot-esque independent campaign. I haven't really done any research to see where he stands on issues, but I do know that with $10 bil+ net worth he shouldn't have to bow to special interest groups to get campaign funding.
No, but he'll have to bow to all the special interest groups if and when he gets to Washington, DC. There isn't a candidate out there who will be able to avoid the machine once they make it to the White House.
What would really be cool/strange/f#*'d up would be if Bloomberg entered and won a State like NY and so no one got the require 270 electoral votes to be elected. The Constitution says if this happens the House picks the President and the Senate picks the VP from the candidates. We could have a Dem Prez and a Rep VP. I know, not likely, but cool to think about.
Snooch:Oh well, I'll break the news to Gretel. Josie can still stop by and hang with my 6 girls (Gretel, Lucy, Sara, Smeag, Lobo, Rosie) Here's a pic of the whole gang (incl Scrappy and Goat) just cause I like to post them.
Im voting for Barak Obama . . . . in 2016 when he should have run!!! To early Barak! he made this run out of popularity and that popular speech he made in 2004 dem convention.
Kucinich is a creppy little man that needs to eat meat
Post by bamadancer on Dec 18, 2007 14:34:34 GMT -5
Oooh, I'll bite, another poli sci major over here!
I feel bad because I am more of a fan of Obama than I am of Hillary, and I'm a woman. I just like Obama's stance on the issues. I don't think he should've waited to run. If not now, when? When is the next chance we won't have an incumbent? His odds are good NOW, and I don't blame him for taking advantage of it.
As far as Ron Paul and Huckabee go...I like both of them (the boy likes Huckabee because he's a member of his fraternity, ha) but I could never, ever, ever vote for someone who wants to overturn a woman's right to choose...be it through overturning Roe v. Wade or through changing policy and making it a state's decision. Coming from someone who works at Planned Parenthood in the SOUTH, there are already very limited reproductive options available here, especially for poor women. Look at Mississippi for example. They have one clinic available in the state that performs abortions, and that clinic is under constant attack from anti-choice organizations. They also must be a liscensed surgi-center (which is ridiculous) and patients must wait 24 hours and receive "counseling" where phsyicians are required to give out state-sponsored information about abortion that is frequently inaccurate. This STATE-SPONSORED information says that abortion increases risks of breast cancer and that it increases risks for post-traumatic stress disorder, both of which are untrue.
I will vote for someone who will protect my rights...that's VERY importat to me.
Look at Mississippi for example. They have one clinic available in the state that performs abortions, and that clinic is under constant attack from anti-choice organizations. They also must be a liscensed surgi-center (which is ridiculous) and patients must wait 24 hours and receive "counseling" where phsyicians are required to give out state-sponsored information about abortion that is frequently inaccurate. This STATE-SPONSORED information says that abortion increases risks of breast cancer and that it increases risks for post-traumatic stress disorder, both of which are untrue.
Don't forget the poverty factor and the fact that the 24 hour waiting period makes it extremely difficult to obatin an abortion in the first place, plus - these girls are getting paid more for every baby they have - there is no real incentive to take birth control or use protection.
Quick question for the group: what candidate supports abortion, supports gay rights, wants to end the current ongoing wars, supports gun ownership, and also wants to end the war on drugs? Oh, and hopefully, they aren't involved in any fundamentalist conservative religious movements. Oh, and hopefully they are fabulously wealthy and can't be bought. Or not wealthy with boatloads of integrity.
Or at least, who comes closest? My guess is Ron Paul... Not sure how Obama or Hillary feel.
Hillary always has her nose in anti-videogame and other over-the-top "think of the children" bills...so that turns me off from her.
Chris Dodd, Bill Richerson but Obama is best out of front runners
Oh, the incentive is there. It's the education and easy access that aren't.
... and the myth of the welfare queen in reality is just that... a myth. Those cases are so incredibly rare. The amount that the check rises with another child is so tiny that it's really not anything at all. It barely covers diapers.
Im voting for Barak Obama . . . . in 2016 when he should have run!!! To early Barak! he made this run out of popularity and that popular speech he made in 2004 dem convention.
Kucinich is a creppy little man that needs to eat meat
Hilary 08!
We need Gore
Dude, his wife(Kucinich's) is hot so hes gotta be doin' something right..
and although Barak is still finding his way, I do like em. If he got the nom I'd vote for him, I don't think he will get my primary vote though.
I can't pick who I vote for because of their dietary choices though, unless theyre like... a cannibal
Edit to add: I don't think Gore will run again. He already won anyway.
Last Edit: Dec 18, 2007 15:50:40 GMT -5 by wooz - Back to Top